2022 Qualifiers - Other Games Thread (AFC & beyond)

[Philosophy_King]

The word arab in itself is very loose and doesn't tie in ethnicity. North African countries adopted the language due to religion. That would be like calling any country that speaks English, English.
Our history also predates Arab history by far.
I'm sure people that know nothing about Iran could confuse you for arabs as well solely going off the Persian alphabet being derived from the Arabic one.

Egypt has a fascinating History and is one of the oldest Civilizations. It is a shame that most of the achievements in Hellenistic Egypt (Library of Alexandria, the great Scientists like Ptolemy, Diophantus, Euclid etc.) is given to the Greeks. Most of these great thinkers where Hellenized Egyptians. How do Egyptians feel about this?

[nisfejahan]

The word arab in itself is very loose and doesn't tie in ethnicity. North African countries adopted the language due to religion. That would be like calling any country that speaks English, English.

Our history also predates Arab history by far.

I'm sure people that know nothing about Iran could confuse you for arabs as well solely going off the Persian alphabet being derived from the Arabic one.

I do not want to divert the thread, but North Africans, Iran and other places did not ADOPT Islam or the Arabic language. It was forced upon them by the marauding hordes of Arabian Peninsula looking for things to loot in the name of their new religion.

Iranians of many generations fought very long and hard to keep Persian alive. The fight continues to this day.

Islam was forced upon them. This fairy tale of Iranians or anybody else for that matter "adopting" Islam is a fabricated story, by the very same marauding hordes and their native collaborators.

[Leicester City]

what quality?

Egypt, Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Oman, etc...

These are the monetary prizes for the teams:

Winner - $5 million
Runner-up - $3 million
Third place- $2 million
Forth pace - $1.5 million
Quarter final - $1 million
Group stages - $750,000

[nisfejahan]

Egypt has a fascinating History and is one of the oldest Civilizations. It is a shame that most of the achievements in Hellenistic Egypt (Library of Alexandria, the great Scientists like Ptolemy, Diophantus, Euclid etc.) is given to the Greeks. Most of these great thinkers where Hellenized Egyptians. How do Egyptians feel about this?

I do not have a representative sample by any means, and only have heard things from Egyptian friends and academics:

There is and has been an intellectual movement in Egypt questioning the Arab-ness of Egypt. It is mirrored by movements in other "Arab" countries such as Lebanon, Syria. etc. They realize that their history goes far beyond the past 1500 years and believe in reviving it.

Vast majority of Egyptians of course are Muslims and many are practicing ones. However, there is also a movement to re-consider what this has meant to them.

Many Egyptians, Moroccans, Libya, etc, do admire Iranians for having withstood (to a certain extent) the cultural ambush of their country and for having kept Persian alive.

[Philosophy_King]

I do not have a representative sample by any means, and only have heard things from Egyptian friends and academics:
There is and has been an intellectual movement in Egypt questioning the Arab-ness of Egypt. It is mirrored by movements in other "Arab" countries such as Lebanon, Syria. etc. They realize that their history goes far beyond the past 1500 years and believe in reviving it.
Vast majority of Egyptians of course are Muslims and many are practicing ones. However, there is also a movement to re-consider what this has meant to them.
Many Egyptians, Moroccans, Libya, etc, do admire Iranians for having withstood (to a certain extent) the cultural ambush of their country and for having kept Persian alive.

Thanks for the explanations, but my question was about their Hellenistic heritage which is wrongly attributed to the "Greeks" and being white washed by Eurocentric's.

[BacheLot]

The word arab in itself is very loose and doesn't tie in ethnicity. North African countries adopted the language due to religion. That would be like calling any country that speaks English, English.

Our history also predates Arab history by far.

I'm sure people that know nothing about Iran could confuse you for arabs as well solely going off the Persian alphabet being derived from the Arabic one.

im certainly not a History buff nor even a big fan of the subject matter ... but never have i even fathomed Egyptians as Arabs either?? regardless of them being arabic speaking ..!! probably because of Egyptians rather ancient and rich history and heritage, pyramids so on..!!?
I do however remember getting rather confused by the popular media term "ARAB Spring" some year ago when it mostly sparked out in North Africa..!? i think that political event Term went a long way towards many other (history avg-knowledged) folks around the world bundling you guys as Arabs..??
personally, in my mind i always thought of you lot more as "North Africans" (the brighter skinned/intellectuality, more advanced and sorta elite nations of Africa...!?)

Egypt, Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Oman, etc...

These are the monetary prizes for the teams:

Winner - $5 million
Runner-up - $3 million
Third place- $2 million
Forth pace - $1.5million
Quarter final - $1million
Group stages - $750,000

daYum ... that sure is a $exy (and sorta easily attained ?) loot..!
not to mention much needed, slew of somewhat formidable TM tune-up games, en route to WC 22..!!

[PSGman#19]

The word arab in itself is very loose and doesn't tie in ethnicity. North African countries adopted the language due to religion. That would be like calling any country that speaks English, English.

Our history also predates Arab history by far.

I'm sure people that know nothing about Iran could confuse you for arabs as well solely going off the Persian alphabet being derived from the Arabic one.

Yes people confuse Iranian with arabs but for the matter they are wrong. It's like confusing Italian as Croats because they both use the same alphabet.

At least Iranians kept their pre Islamic tradition (language, nowruz, calendar, etc..). Yes there is diversity in the arab world, as there is also diversity in Russia federation but at the end Egypt, lebanon etc.. Belongs to arab cup, arab league organization, arab bank, etc..

[nisfejahan]

Thanks for the explanations, but my question was about their Hellenistic heritage which is wrongly attributed to the "Greeks" and being white washed by Eurocentric's.

Re-reading your post made me realize I misread your question.

A parallel would be the "Arabization" of Persian achievements in the post-Islamic Iran. I know, we (Iranians) do not like it, but interestingly enough, this topic as related to Hellenized Egypt has never come up in my conversations. Interesting question though!

[Philosophy_King]

Re-reading your post made me realize I misread your question.

A parallel would be the "Arabization" of Persian achievements in the post-Islamic Iran. I know, we (Iranians) do not like it, but interestingly enough, this topic as related to Hellenized Egypt has never come up in my conversations. Interesting question though!

Yeah there are definitely parallels! i was always wondering why figures like Ptolemy, Hypatia, Euclid, Diophantus were portrayed as being white and of Greek Ethnicity. It is funny who no one seems to questioning this "white-washing". As if Greeks were to only ancient people who could think in a scientific-mathematical way. Hellenistic Egypt was really the core of Philosophy and Science during the Hellenistic period. I have never witnessed that modern Egyptians reclaiming this important part of their History from Eurocentric falsifications.

[eerooni]

By the way, why didn't Qatar invite Iran to the tournament? Before anyone says "iRaN iS nOt aN aRaB nAtIoN", South Sudan was invited to the tournament and they are not an Arab nation. It would have been a great experience for the team and Dragan Skocic prior to the World Cup and would have really given us a proper simulation for what to expect at World Cup in order to maximize our chances of making it into the RO 16.

I agree! Japan does regular tours of the "South American Cup" why cant Iran ( to build bridges) be invited to the A-Rab cup?..

[PSGman#19]

I agree! Japan does regular tours of the "South American Cup" why cant Iran ( to build bridges) be invited to the A-Rab cup?..

We don't play enough arab teams to play arab cup?! Iraq bahrain iraq syria Lebanon uae..

[kastro]

Egypt has a fascinating History and is one of the oldest Civilizations. It is a shame that most of the achievements in Hellenistic Egypt (Library of Alexandria, the great Scientists like Ptolemy, Diophantus, Euclid etc.) is given to the Greeks. Most of these great thinkers where Hellenized Egyptians. How do Egyptians feel about this?

I think it's bullshit European propaganda. Many of these scientists have been multigenerational in Egypt. A lot of Egyptians had Greek names because Greek was the lingua franca like English is today, and it's why they try attributing everything to Greece. I know many Egyptians who are annoyed by this.

[kastro]

I do not want to divert the thread, but North Africans, Iran and other places did not ADOPT Islam or the Arabic language. It was forced upon them by the marauding hordes of Arabian Peninsula looking for things to loot in the name of their new religion.
Iranians of many generations fought very long and hard to keep Persian alive. The fight continues to this day.
Islam was forced upon them. This fairy tale of Iranians or anybody else for that matter "adopting" Islam is a fabricated story, by the very same marauding hordes and their native collaborators.

I don't disagree that it was forced down on us for sure. When I said adopted, I was more referring to it being the widely spoken language over our Coptic language.
We still have Egyptian words mixed in with our Arabic today that all other Arabic speaking nations don't obviously use. One example we use is 'outa' for tomato which is the ancient Egyptian for it. 'Tarabeza' for table, etc.

[The]

I don't disagree that it was forced down on us for sure. When I said adopted, I was more referring to it being the widely spoken language over our Coptic language.
We still have Egyptian words mixed in with our Arabic today that all other Arabic speaking nations don't obviously use. One example we use is 'outa' for tomato which is the ancient Egyptian for it. 'Tarabeza' for table, etc.

I don't doubt the general point you're making about Egyptian Arabic, and don't mean to derail this thread, but fwiw, Tomato did not exist outside of the Americas before the 15th-16th century. There would be no ancient Egyptian, Persian, etc... Word for it. Only ancient mesoamerican.

[kastro]

I don't doubt the general point you're making about Egyptian Arabic, and don't mean to derail this thread, but fwiw, Tomato did not exist outside of the Americas before the 15th-16th century. There would be no ancient Egyptian, Persian, etc... Word for it. Only ancient mesoamerican.

Sorry, to clarify what I was saying, 'ouuta' means fruit in Coptic which is what we use to name a tomato today rather than the actual Arabic word.