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Why have we lacked success in the past 40 years?

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    Why have we lacked success in the past 40 years?

    Up until the end of the 70s we were the undisputed king of Asian soccer. We qualified for the World Cup when only 1 spot was available for all of Asia and Oceania, the Olympics (advancing to the quarterfinals), won the Asian Games and a hattrick of Asian Championships. To me it's not so much of what we have done since then but rather what we haven't done. In my opinion many of our regional rivals have taken the right steps while we have just faked them. The best examples I can use to demonstrate my point are Japan and the US.

    Both countries were doormats up until the 90s. At that point they began investing in all levels of their national teams but especially the adult level. They both launched professional leagues. They hired competent coaches (Hans Ooft for Japan, Bora Milutinovic for USA). They increased the number of friendlies (the US averaged about 16 games per year in the 90s while in the 80s some years they didn't play at all) and regularly hosted tournaments against decent opposition (Kirin Cup for Japan and USCup for USA). Granted this last World Cup the US crashed spectacularly but on average not only are both countries expected to win their continental championship and qualify for a World Cup but also given a good chance of advancing out of their group which they have been doing every other tournament. Pretty much everything I wrote above is what I consider the key to success. Other countries might not have executed these points as good as Japan but they have done enough to cause us trouble.

    From the points above I can only see us doing the coach part and even that at best is zoorchapooni due to sanctions. We do hire the best we can find but that often translates into no continuity from one coach to the next as completely different styles may be implemented. The fact that we are sanctioned also does not help a foreign coach as far as getting to know our players as many of them are unknown and it takes time for a coach to identify players he likes and to introduce them into the team. I wish we developed more Iranian coaches with the proper qualifications as that would mean being familiar with the players, no language barrier, and not neccesarily working for money but for gheyrat. I think in the 70s O'Farrell was our only foreign coach but most of our success came with Iranian ones.

    Do we even have youth programs? A while back I had opened a thread asking where our youth players come from. The best answer I got was that they were nominated by coaches and once brought together the TM youth coaches would pick from them. But still does not answer the question of how the nominated players were identified and how many youth players don't get picked because they don't have a platform to be seen. I don't know much about Japan's system although I take it that it's good as Japan has been qualifying and advancing in your World Cups. The US had an entire youth setup in Brandenton Florida and now MLS clubs are required to have a youth program.

    Our friendlies are again a victim of sanctions. Perhaps I'm missing a few games but in the past 10 years or so the only notable friendlies I can think of where against Brazil, Chile and Sweden. Playing former Soviet Republics or arab countries are more of the norm for us. It's better than nothing but these are the types of games to use to identify players, not test the main lineup.

    What is our pro league doing that our amateur league wasn't already doing? In other words what did we change from our amateur league to make it pro? In words of my cousin in Iran, we simply changed the numbers on the jerseys from Persian to English. Perhaps that is why we are not getting the most from our players or worse missing out on players who don't see continuation of soccer as a career (in Iran). I was in the US when they launched their league and saw firsthand the amount of work that had to go into securing sponsors, TV deals, stadiums, investors, etc. and I kept telling myself I hope they just don't start calling Iran's league professional without changing anything but that's precisely what I saw happen.

    So that brings us to where we are now. Many of the points have deep roots that can't be fixed immediately. Some of it is luck i.e. what crop of players are available for a stretch (compare the mid 90s or 2000s to 2009-11). The only factor we have immediate say on is the coach but even with that there is only so far it can take us considering all the other setbacks. We will have coaches, some better than others, but until the other issues get addressed we will not pass the hurdle of going to the 2nd round of the World Cup or winning the Asian Championship. So unfortunately the way I see things is that this is where we are and will stay as such until the other points get addressed. Or unless we get extremely lucky.
    I went to Sharif University. I'm a superior genetic mutation, an improvement on the existing mediocre stock.


    #2
    This is a truly Sharif University level thread.

    The answer is we truly dont have youth academies they way they exist in Europe. Even in the US, while most kids interest in football drops off after middle school/high school level the resources are there for people to make it. Pay to play is the reason the US is not a stronger team( they could have talent from anywhere in the world if they wanted).

    In Iran, I suspect both a lighter version of pay to play and lack of organized academies to be our problem. Even at IPL level some of our players lack fundamentals like accurate crossingg/trapping/off the ball movement. We need 10+ more Kia academies to even start thinking of the organization that the Dutch or Germans approach youth football with

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      #3
      1979.

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        #4
        Iran Iraq war, corruption, unprofessionalism, and lack of decent youth league, not just youth teams but a proper youth league have all combined brought us where we are today.
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          #5
          Dadash, it takes a quick look at the state of our country to answer your question. Ask yourself: what is right in our country? Anything??

          Iranian football fans do not have realistic expectations. I say given the state of affairs, our team has over-performed through the years.
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            #6
            Iranian football from the 90's and onwards (1990-2020 vs 1950-1980, not counting the 80's where Iran was in a vicious war) is much stronger than it was during the 70's and 60's and 50's.

            Winning the Asian cup three times in the 60's and 70's when there where only 8 participants was fine and dandy, but we must not forget that during '96, 2004 and 2015 TM was cheated big time by corrupt referees and we would have won those three Asian cups had it not been for the scandalous refereeing (i'm pretty sure they where bribed).

            Then there is the world cup, the biggest stage of International football. TM's biggest achievement there was qualifying just once for the 1978 world cup and drawing Scotland. From the 90's and onwards we have qualified four times for the world cup, best results were beating the US and Morocco, followed by drawing Portugal and Nigeria (then champions of Africa) and narrowly losing to Yugoslavia, Argentina and Spain where we could've gotten better results if TM was a bit more lucky.
            Then there is the level of talent Iranian football has produced: Bagheri, Daei, Azizi, Mahdavikia, Karimi, Nekounam, Taremi, Azmoun etc the list is too long but we can see that in comparison the 1990-2020 Iran has produced much stronger footballers than the 1950-1980 Iran.

            No my friends Iranian football has gotten much stronger, if we just put our emotions aside and objectively compare the 3 decades with each other, it's easy to reach this conclusion.

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              #7
              Originally posted by Sepehr9 View Post
              Then there is the world cup, the biggest stage of International football. TM's biggest achievement there was qualifying just once for the 1978 world cup and drawing Scotland. From the 90's and onwards we have qualified four times for the world cup, best results were beating the US and Morocco, followed by drawing Portugal and Nigeria (then champions of Africa) and narrowly losing to Yugoslavia, Argentina and Spain where we could've gotten better results if TM was a bit more lucky.
              Then there is the level of talent Iranian football has produced: Bagheri, Daei, Azizi, Mahdavikia, Karimi, Nekounam, Taremi, Azmoun etc the list is too long but we can see that in comparison the 1990-2020 Iran has produced much stronger footballers than the 1950-1980 Iran.
              No my friends Iranian football has gotten much stronger, if we just put our emotions aside and objectively compare the 3 decades with each other, it's easy to reach this conclusion.
              We tried qualifying for the World Cup twice in the 70s. We failed once. We succeeded the other time when only 1 team from all of Asia and Oceania made it. Currently 4 or 5 teams make it from Asia so you just have to be decent to make it. The only time we have been among the top 16 in the World Cup was 1978. We used to qualify for half the World Cups we entered qualification for. We still have the same record even with 4-5 teams qualifying from our region.
              We have yet to produce a player of Ghelichkhani's caliber to name just one.
              I went to Sharif University. I'm a superior genetic mutation, an improvement on the existing mediocre stock.

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                #8
                Originally posted by KC McElroy View Post
                We tried qualifying for the World Cup twice in the 70s. We failed once. We succeeded the other time when only 1 team from all of Asia and Oceania made it. Currently 4 or 5 teams make it from Asia so you just have to be decent to make it. The only time we have been among the top 16 in the World Cup was 1978. We used to qualify for half the World Cups we entered qualification for. We still have the same record even with 4-5 teams qualifying from our region.
                We have yet to produce a player of Ghelichkhani's caliber to name just one.
                Asian football was in a much weaker state during the 50's, 60's and 70's and yet Iran managed to qualify only once for the world cup. Ghelichkhani was a good player, but Bagheri, Mahdavikia, Daei, Karimi, Azmoun ao are better players.

                Football has gotten much more competitive since the 70's, but aside from the 80's where Iran was war torn, our football has significantly progressed as well.

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Sepehr9 View Post
                  Asian football was in a much weaker state during the 50's, 60's and 70's and yet Iran managed to qualify only once for the world cup. Ghelichkhani was a good player, but Bagheri, Mahdavikia, Daei, Karimi, Azmoun ao are better players.
                  One team vs 4-5 teams. 16 teams vs. 32 teams. Once in 2 tries vs four times in 8 tries.
                  We have yet to produce a player of Ghelichkhani's caliber.
                  I went to Sharif University. I'm a superior genetic mutation, an improvement on the existing mediocre stock.

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by KC McElroy View Post
                    One team vs 4-5 teams. 16 teams vs. 32 teams. Once in 2 tries vs four times in 8 tries.
                    We have yet to produce a player of Ghelichkhani's caliber.
                    As stated before, postwar Iran has produced plenty players of a better caliber than Ghelichkhani. We've produced players who played for Bayern Munich (three to be exact), Leverkusen, Hamburg SV when it was a topnotch club, Serie A, Primera Division, Portugal, Holland, Russia, Premier League, Greece, Turkey, Croatia, Belgium etc. We produced a legend named Ali Daei who's the world's all time International topscorer, we've produced an Karimi who would dribble the best defenders in the world, Bagheri our general, Nekounam and Teymourian, Taremi, Jahanbakhsh and Azmoun becoming topscorers in European leagues, we've produced players who scored in the Champions League against world class clubs. And then you question our lack of success in the past 40 years?

                    All due respect but our Iranian players of the 50's, 60's and 70's could only dream of reaching the same level of our postwar players. Also, Iranian football will continue to grow stronger and stronger, just look at how Perspolis with all its restrictions made it to the final of the Asian champions league. Watch how Ghaedi will become a major Asian football star etc. Stay tuned my friends.

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by Sepehr9 View Post
                      As stated before, postwar Iran has produced plenty players of a better caliber than Ghelichkhani. We've produced players who played for Bayern Munich (three to be exact), Leverkusen, Hamburg SV when it was a topnotch club, Serie A, Primera Division, Portugal, Holland, Russia, Premier League, Greece, Turkey, Croatia etc. We produced a legend named Ali Daei who's the world's all time International topscorer, we've produced an Karimi who would dribble the best defenders in the world, Bagheri our general, Nekounam and Teymourian, Taremi, Jahanbakhsh and Azmoun becoming topscorers in European leagues, we've produced players who scored in the Champions League against world class clubs. And then you question our lack of success in the past 40 years?

                      All due respect but our Iranian players of the 50's, 60's and 70's could only dream of reaching the same level of our postwar players. Also, Iranian football will continue to grow stronger and stronger, just look at how Perspolis with all its restrictions made it to the final of the Asian champions league. Watch how Ghaedi will become a major Asian football star etc. Stay tuned my friends.
                      You are incorset. You are unfamiliar with our history. We have yet to produce a player of Ghelichkhani's caliber.
                      I went to Sharif University. I'm a superior genetic mutation, an improvement on the existing mediocre stock.

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                        #12
                        Guys, of course our current team is much much stronger than the team in the 70's... But that is the case with every other national team in the world also. The Scottish team that we played in the 78 world cup was out partying the night before our game and smoked cigarettes at half time in the locker room!!! Ghilichkhani and others used to do 95% of their running in the first 60 minutes of the game and then they would cut (miboridan!!!). The last 20 minutes of games looked nothing like the first 60. Now, even aftabeh sazi ghazvin has better conditioning than Ali Parvin ever did.

                        The real question is have we kept up relative to other countries with the advancement of soccer. I agree that we were the best in Asia back in the 70's, but it is much more questionable now. We are in the top 5 with Japan in the lead and then too tight to call the rest. And our soccer infrastructure is not in the top 10 of Asia. Our national team does the most with the least.

                        Another thing that has happened in soccer is that everyone has figured it out. In the 70's, the top ranked teams (Germany, Brazil, etc...) would beat teams like Iraq, Jordan, Taiwan, etc by at least 10 goals without even trying.... Now, you would not expect them to win by more than a couple of goals... Both because of better conditioning and better soccer knowledge.

                        So, in conclusion, not fair or correct to compare 70's to now... not even 90's and now...

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by Farzadfarhangni View Post
                          Guys, of course our current team is much much stronger than the team in the 70's... But that is the case with every other national team in the world also. The Scottish team that we played in the 78 world cup was out partying the night before our game and smoked cigarettes at half time in the locker room!!! Ghilichkhani and others used to do 95% of their running in the first 60 minutes of the game and then they would cut (miboridan!!!). The last 20 minutes of games looked nothing like the first 60. Now, even aftabeh sazi ghazvin has better conditioning than Ali Parvin ever did.

                          The real question is have we kept up relative to other countries with the advancement of soccer. I agree that we were the best in Asia back in the 70's, but it is much more questionable now. We are in the top 5 with Japan in the lead and then too tight to call the rest. And our soccer infrastructure is not in the top 10 of Asia. Our national team does the most with the least.

                          Another thing that has happened in soccer is that everyone has figured it out. In the 70's, the top ranked teams (Germany, Brazil, etc...) would beat teams like Iraq, Jordan, Taiwan, etc by at least 10 goals without even trying.... Now, you would not expect them to win by more than a couple of goals... Both because of better conditioning and better soccer knowledge.

                          So, in conclusion, not fair or correct to compare 70's to now... not even 90's and now...
                          Well I disagree with you stating that we are now stronger than we were in the 70s, however, your other point is what I have been alluding to. We have not kept up with other countries that have improved by leaps and bounds.
                          I went to Sharif University. I'm a superior genetic mutation, an improvement on the existing mediocre stock.

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by KC McElroy View Post
                            Well I disagree with you stating that we are now stronger than we were in the 70s, however, your other point is what I have been alluding to. We have not kept up with other countries that have improved by leaps and bounds.
                            I think, if we play the 1978 world cup team, in whatever physical shape they were in back then against the 2018 world cup team, 2018 team would win by at least 6 goals. Just an opinion, will never be able to prove it, but that is how I feel. 80% attributable to better nutrition/conditioning/etc... and 20 % being better technically, and tactically... Modern defenses are not comparable to the old defenses. Ghafoor Jahani can play 900 minutes against Pouraliganji and Majid Hosseini and he would still not be able to score. Again, my opinion. Not provable.

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by KC McElroy View Post
                              Well I disagree with you stating that we are now stronger than we were in the 70s, however, your other point is what I have been alluding to. We have not kept up with other countries that have improved by leaps and bounds.
                              Aha yes very interesting, is that why Iran was the best performing Asian country during the world cup of 1998? And together with South Korea the best performing Asian country during the world cup of 2014, and the best performing Asian country together with Japan during the world cup of 2018?

                              Aside from producing the most talented players in Asia together with Japan and South Korea, TM got cheated during three Asian Cups. Lack of success? That's just a silly and laughable statement.

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