Iran wants to fire Marc Wilmots

[khodam]

The chemistry CQ brought to TM was unprecedented for an “Iranian” squad. We have seen TM discipline and chemistry during Branko’s time. No Thanks!

[O-ZoNe]

For these 4 games Branko is probably sufficient, but we will seriously struggle in the final stage of WCQ and beyond with him in charge. The ACL final was a perfect example of Branko’s tactical inabilities, Kashima coach completely outclassed him in those two games.


https://youtu.be/gHX9I5N_VJY

Not a Branko fan but I also was not keen on CQ...sadly Wilmots has been far from good...

Then I wondered...could it be that we overestimate TM abilities regardless of coach? Time after Time when it counts we have to rely on opposition error, sometimes luck or individual brilliance...or we flop. When was the last time TM convincingly won a match against a team ranked similarly or better than ourselves by dominating play and possession? Did we all forget how badly CQ and TM were embarrassed by Japan in AC semifinal?

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[DR Strangemoosh]

Not a Branko fan but I also was not keen on CQ...sadly Wilmots has been far from good...
Then I wondered...could it be that we overestimate TM abilities regardless of coach? Time after Time when it counts we have to rely on opposition error, sometimes luck or individual brilliance...or we flop. When was the last time TM convincingly won a match against a team ranked similarly or better than ourselves by dominating play and possession? Did we all forget how badly CQ and TM were embarrassed by Japan in AC semifinal?
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I think your particular issue Agha, as mentioned before, is that you aren't realistic about the situation in Iran generally, in terms of football infrastructure, and then in terms of our current relative talent compared to our rivals.

That's why you didn't appreciate the last guy putting together something much better than the sum of its parts, albeit without any silverware. I think the only other people on this forum who are the same are Tooleh Khers (who was vocally supportive of CQ in posts on this forum until the final year of his 8-year tenure) and Hoorad (which was mainly because of PP media kool-aid but I think even he is now appreciating the context of where we are at the moment). Yours I think is just that you aren't being pragmatic about the current situation.

So when you said "then I wondered", I'm kinda thinking sob bekheyr

[O-ZoNe]

I think your particular issue Agha, as mentioned before, is that you aren't realistic about the situation in Iran generally, in terms of football infrastructure, and then in terms of our current relative talent compared to our rivals.

That's why you didn't appreciate the last guy putting together something much better than the sum of its parts, albeit without any silverware. I think the only other people on this forum who are the same are Tooleh Khers (who was vocally supportive of CQ in posts on this forum until the final year of his 8-year tenure) and Hoorad (which was mainly because of PP media kool-aid but I think even he is now appreciating the context of where we are at the moment). Yours I think is just that you aren't being pragmatic about the current situation.

So when you said "then I wondered", I'm kinda thinking sob bekheyr

Maybe. But I know more people feel the same as I do than you wish to admit. Unpopular opinion but a good coach should not just create a team from the sum of the parts but also advance the team. CQs tactic never changed in 8 years. It was so blatantly obvious that any competent team facing us who had watched tape masterfully broke our team down. Case in point... Japan.

It was time for a change. Few coaches lasted as long as CQ in any one national team. CQ failed to address our issues in attack and over 8 years time that was becoming a theme. If Iran won it was 1-0 but that won't hold. You have to adapt base on who you are playing. If the morocco match ended different...say the player didn't score an OG many of you would have seen that WC as a disaster and called for his resignation earlier. CQ played for luck at times when he could have and should have fostered a game plan with the aim of going for it. No risk no reward.

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[DR Strangemoosh]

Maybe. But I know more people feel the same as I do than you wish to admit. Unpopular opinion but a good coach should not just create a team from the sum of the parts but also advance the team. CQs tactic never changed in 8 years. It was so blatantly obvious that any competent team facing us who had watched tape masterfully broke our team down. Case in point... Japan.
It was time for a change. Few coaches lasted as long as CQ in any one national team. CQ failed to address our issues in attack and over 8 years time that was becoming a theme. If Iran won it was 1-0 but that won't hold. You have to adapt base on who you are playing. If the morocco match ended different...say the player didn't score an OG many of you would have seen that WC as a disaster and called for his resignation earlier. CQ played for luck at times when he could have and should have fostered a game plan with the aim of going for it. No risk no reward.
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Come on bro, what great pool of talent do we have? I genuinely just want to say "wake up!" We have one class player (Azmoun) and the others have overachieved, we don't have the same talents we had in previous decades.

Our talent pool is a fraction of Morocco's - some of us on this forum were expecting us to beat Morocco - I was happy with a draw against a team which has players littered in top European leagues, is hungry, and didn't concede a goal in their Agrican qualifying... and yes in the end we were lucky to get a win even.

Now we've already reiterated many times the intangible benefits that Queiroz did, in previous threads. From giving us a discipline I'd never seen before to bedding players abroad who I never thought would play for TM (Dejagha at the time, Ghoddos), to fostering a team spirit I'd never seen before. He identified and worked on our flaws better than any other coach I can imagine. In the end even one of the world's best sports psychologists in the Asian Cup wasn't enough to help with our schoolboy meltdown.

He had a philosophy and played a disciplined pragmatic football which made me proud as you just don't see that in Iranian team sports. For me, these are successes. We aren't Japan with lots of money and political and economic stability. We aren't even Iraq who can pay coaches and have support of other bodies. We are the main bogeyman nation in the world - getting to the second round of the world cup is a dream, not a reality. Qualifying to two back to back world cups and getting highly positive feedback from proper football pundits made us proud. Made me proud.

We need to be realistic.

[O-ZoNe]

He had a philosophy and played a disciplined pragmatic football which made me proud as you just don't see that in Iranian team sports. For me, these are successes. We aren't Japan with lots of money and political and economic stability. We aren't even Iraq who can pay coaches and have support of other bodies. We are the main bogeyman nation in the world - getting to the second round of the world cup is a dream, not a reality. Qualifying to two back to back world cups and getting highly positive feedback from proper football pundits made us proud. Made me proud.

We need to be realistic.

This is a myth perpetuated by blind CQ love. Volleyball, beach soccer, futsal, even bball have all demonstrated this outside of the football. Im not saying CQ didnt have positives but after 8 years change was due. I reserved judgement until the last worldcup but things didnt change or improve. Stagnation was not an option. Unfortunately instead of building on CQ iff has royally flubbed. It is still salvageable but barely...


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[DR Strangemoosh]

This is a myth perpetuated by blind CQ love. Volleyball, beach soccer, futsal, even bball have all demonstrated this outside of the football. Im not saying CQ didnt have positives but after 8 years change was due. I reserved judgement until the last worldcup but things didnt change or improve. Stagnation was not an option. Unfortunately instead of building on CQ iff has royally flubbed. It is still salvageable but barely...


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I like TM - why would me and 98% of PFDC have "blind CQ love". It's just appreciation of someone who changed our football for the better.

Regarding stagnation - point is that this was finally a TM that he had blooded - compared with other coaches we have had he was always thinking about the future (how many of us were angry with him when he called up Taremi, Beiranvand, Majid Hosseini... many others) and it looked like TM were getting better and better.

That's why it really wasn't time for him to leave - by his own account this was the third stage of his 3-stage plan for TM. I would have been happy for him to leave after WC 2022 when the project was over. So far, qualifying and performing respectably at 2 world cups, he had already done enough for most of us on this forum.

Football isn't volleyball, beach soccer, futsal etc... They are incomparable. Football is the world's sport.

[O-ZoNe]

I like TM - why would me and 98% of PFDC have "blind CQ love". It's just appreciation of someone who changed our football for the better.

Regarding stagnation - point is that this was finally a TM that he had blooded - compared with other coaches we have had he was always thinking about the future (how many of us were angry with him when he called up Taremi, Beiranvand, Majid Hosseini... many others) and it looked like TM were getting better and better.

That's why it really wasn't time for him to leave - by his own account this was the third stage of his 3-stage plan for TM. I would have been happy for him to leave after WC 2022 when the project was over. So far, qualifying and performing respectably at 2 world cups, he had already done enough for most of us on this forum.

Football isn't volleyball, beach soccer, futsal etc... They are incomparable. Football is the world's sport.

You went from football to talking about CQ in context of team sports then back to football. Team was clearly not that bonded since it wasn't without drama throughout his tenure. To be fair that seems to go hand in hand with TM. Regardless in the end results matter. When you don't win anything...zero in 8 years...no other nation would find that acceptable. So why are we ok with having a plan, being bonded, having chemistry that hasn't translated in any tournament win. Last time I checked you higher a coach to bring you championships not to build friendships.

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[DR Strangemoosh]

You went from football to talking about CQ in context of team sports then back to football. Team was clearly not that bonded since it wasn't without drama throughout his tenure. To be fair that seems to go hand in hand with TM. Regardless in the end results matter. When you don't win anything...zero in 8 years...no other nation would find that acceptable. So why are we ok with having a plan, being bonded, having chemistry that hasn't translated in any tournament win. Last time I checked you higher a coach to bring you championships not to build friendships.

Not really, my expectation for TM is never to win a championship. You are unrealistic, or you think Iran is stronger and has a better talent base than it has. Do you expect Brighton to win the Premier League?

Qualifying to two world cups for me is very impressive.

We don't have an infrastructure. The two teams who ranked higher than us in the Asian Cup make our football setup look like a joke with one having arguably the best national football academy in the world and the other having players at all ages littered throughout European leagues.

[RaginG Inferno]

DR S, can you please create a poll assessing CQ's reign? This should put this to bed.

[O-ZoNe]

Not really, my expectation for TM is never to win a championship. You are unrealistic, or you think Iran is stronger and has a better talent base than it has. Do you expect Brighton to win the Premier League?

Qualifying to two world cups for me is very impressive.

We don't have an infrastructure. The two teams who ranked higher than us in the Asian Cup make our football setup look like a joke with one having arguably the best national football academy in the world and the other having players at all ages littered throughout European leagues.

No to Brighton cause they never won PL. Yes to Iran for AC since we have won it before and have the pedigree to do so. Even so, if Brighton was related or failed to progress expect change. Chris Hughton was sacked even though they survived the PL. Just like CQ was sacked when we were the favs to win AC and came up massively short.

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[O-ZoNe]

DR S, can you please create a poll assessing CQ's reign? This should put this to bed.

Pointless to do this at this stage. Wilmots will cause a recency bias that will undoubtedly work in CQs favour. CQs legacy will be clearer in 10-15 years where I suspect will largely be favourable. I do not deny this. However we needed change. Our game plan was obvious and opponents had figured us out. Unfortunately IFF made the wrong change.

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[Leicester City]

I think your particular issue Agha, as mentioned before, is that you aren't realistic about the situation in Iran generally, in terms of football infrastructure, and then in terms of our current relative talent compared to our rivals.

That's why you didn't appreciate the last guy putting together something much better than the sum of its parts, albeit without any silverware. I think the only other people on this forum who are the same are Tooleh Khers (who was vocally supportive of CQ in posts on this forum until the final year of his 8-year tenure) and Hoorad (which was mainly because of PP media kool-aid but I think even he is now appreciating the context of where we are at the moment). Yours I think is just that you aren't being pragmatic about the current situation.

So when you said "then I wondered", I'm kinda thinking sob bekheyr

Everybody can lose once or twice. Even CQ did. Look at the whole stats instead:

The stats from user Sly, not PP media as do I do not find social media account as a source for credibility. I believe Sly was the original author and creator for these pictures which were distributed across PFDC (if I am not mistaken) I was disappointed to find out I have been mislead by fake statistics and even more disappointed that they were posted to mislead other members who may end up in trouble, I assumed credibility of the stats because Sly is a historical member who has been here for many years who’s most likely a good person and I don’t think his intention was to mislead anyone, could have been a simple innocent mistake.

PS: I censored out the image of the fake stats but this was the original source of where I got picture from

[DR Strangemoosh]

The stats from user Sly, not PP media as do I do not find social media account as a source for credibility. I believe Sly was the original author and creator for these pictures which were distributed across PFDC (if I am not mistaken) I was disappointed to find out I have been mislead by fake statistics and even more disappointed that they were posted to mislead other members who may end up in trouble, I assumed credibility of the stats because Sly is a historical member who has been here for many years who’s most likely a good person and I don’t think his intention was to mislead anyone, could have been a simple innocent mistake.
PS: I censored out the image of the fake stats but this was the original source of where I got picture from

These aren't anything to do with Sly. He just copied and pasted the image that Tooleh Khers kept spamming on the board over a hundred times. It had the watermark of a PP instagram account called "Irperspolis" and the stats weren't correct even if we imagine Branko's second stint as TM coach was his full tenure.

Either way, there are "lies, damned lies, and statistics". Numbers don't tell the full picture with any of these coaches. Sly keeps talking about Daei's win ratio and whilst I don't particularly criticise Daei, just quoting a number doesn't give the picture and context.

[DR Strangemoosh]

Yes to Iran for AC since we have won it before and have the pedigree to do so.

We won it three times in the seventies when we were a continental superpower, and had by far the best squad in Asia. We had players who were gifted throughout our midfield and attack, at least compared to our rivals.

Just compare our squad with Japan's, Korea's or even now Qatar. We don't even have any actual playmakers, a single creative midfielder. Sure we have lots of wing-forwards but our main midfield positions are barren. We have disciplined players who give their all for the team, but our technical skills has, through a lack of investments at grass roots level, been relatively fraught. Our millions of kids growing up playing gol koochik is no longer translating to Karimis, Mahdavikias, Namjoo Motlaghs etc...

How Queiroz managed to get every single little drop of talent out of the likes of Amiri is beyond me.