Women in Stadium (Discussion Thread)

[nisfejahan]

I don't think this is a cultural issue. Yes, I'm sure there is a small group that frowns upon women participating in the civic life, but based on my experience, the vast majority of people do not support the ban against women in stadiums. It is just silly and incomprehensible. Half the population (females) have every right to enjoy the matches played by their national team or their favorite club team. Banning them is irrational, counter-productive and UNJUST. All excuses about cultural or practical issues are just that; Excuses.

The existence of the morality police is another silly and incomprehensible practice by IR. It achieves NOTHING. It pisses off people. It is a waste of resources. It only provide a job opportunity for the extreme jerks in the society (or people who are desperate for a paycheck). Why else would any self-respecting person want such a job?

The segregation on the buses is a different issue. First of all, women still get to ride the bus, they are not excluded from using them. Second, I do know that many women actually prefer it this way. At least they prefer to have the option to use the segregated wagons when they feel like it. Such measures (providing separate compartment for women) has been tried in other countries, purely from a women's protection point of view. I do not think there is anything wrong with it, as long as it is voluntary, not forced.

It is really time to put this divisive issue to rest by reversing this moronic ban against half the Iranians.

[sam20]

I go to Iran regularly and nobody wants a gender segregation unless you’re super religious. I would say roughly 80% don’t want a segregation.

To be honest, that's pretty much what I pictured. At least 80%.

[bozghaleh]

Yes it was possible to mix back then, to what degree women went or were allowed to go to football stadiums or men allowed their wives, sisters and mothers to sit next to strangers in busses is something any rational person can figure out. Iran was no Paris or France during the Shah era lad. If anything Iranian society is more open/less traditional now than during the Shah administration.

Sirvan, the more "open/less traditional" now argument is a tired one. These represent the minimal amount of change brought by the blood, sweat, and tears of women filtered through the cruel passage of time. We have measles vaccines now, and Jet engines instead of propellers. Don't go patting the IR on the back for the minimal changes that have happened on their watch when they have stood in its way, fighting tooth and nail to keep us in the 7th century. The fact is that that the Shah's time was a lot more enlightened FOR ITS TIME PERIOD compared to other developing countries than what we have now for ours. Keep in mind that misogynestic viewpoints were widespread in America and that women had trouble getting into baseball stadiums in the US during the same time we are talking about:
https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/20...e-fans-history
The sad fact is that we are one of the few places actively trying to hold on to festering, medieval ideas of the past, and so we deservedly get negative press for this (just as say some countries get negative press for modern slavery).

[Team Melli Fan]

Deadline has passed.

FIFA President Announces Deadline for Iran to Take “Concrete Steps” to Let Women Into Stadiums
https://iranhumanrights.org/2019/06/...into-stadiums/

In a letter addressing the chief of the Football Federation of the Islamic Republic of Iran (FFIRI) Mehdi Taj, the president of FIFA announced a July 15, 2019, deadline for Taj to inform him of the “concrete steps” the Iranian government would be taking to lift its ban on women in stadiums by September of this year.

Infantino did not state what would happen if Iran fails to respond by September.

[KC McElroy]

Ultimately the opinion of those who prioritize Iranians should matter. Those who pick Bosnians over Iranians demonstrate that they are more interested in others which is where they should concentrate their efforts. As Iranians we want our women to attend and enjoy soccer games they way they used to and currently want to.

[sirvan]

Quote Originally Posted by pajamNL View Post
Womans only gym, yes there are a few , but only a few mostly used by arabs or other muslim minorities. But womans only cinema night never heard of it.
Do you have pictures of this to prove it?

Oh there are more than a few women's only gym clubs in Holland lad. Typical Dutch thing to bash your muslim minorities, but the majority members of women's gym club are non-muslim Dutch women who want to work out without men harassing them at the gym.
My Dutch female friends used to tell me that when i asked them why they go to women's only sport club. And maybe you have been living under a rock, but i used to live in The Hague for about 8 years, and my ex girlfriend used to go to the cinema for ladies night with her female friends (she was Dutch by the way and not muslim):

https://www.pathe.nl/ladiesnight

At the end of the day, that's what you people out in the West do, bash us and see us as inferior back warded beings, but you don't see your own behavior. We have the right to have our own customs and believes as much as you do, bigotry and intolerance is very much present in Western cultures, at least as much as in other parts of the world. Your comments just further prove my thesis, something i had already clearly witnessed while i was living in Europe, where one can't even make a critical note regarding Israel's human right abuses without being labelled an anti Semite and losing his job, while racism against muslims and other minorities is the norm where you guys live.

[KC McElroy]

Quote Originally Posted by pajamNL View Post
Womans only gym, yes there are a few , but only a few mostly used by arabs or other muslim minorities. But womans only cinema night never heard of it.
Do you have pictures of this to prove it?

Oh there are more than a few women's only gym clubs in Holland lad. Typical Dutch thing to bash your muslim minorities, but the majority members of women's gym club are non-muslim Dutch women who want to work out without men harassing them at the gym.
My Dutch female friends used to tell me that when i asked them why they go to women's only sport club. And maybe you have been living under a rock, but i used to live in The Hague for about 8 years, and my ex girlfriend used to go to the cinema for ladies night with her female friends (she was Dutch by the way and not muslim):

https://www.pathe.nl/ladiesnight

At the end of the day, that's what you people out in the West do, bash us and see us as inferior back warded beings, but you don't see your own behavior. We have the right to have our own customs and believes as much as you do, bigotry and intolerance is very much present in Western cultures, at least as much as in other parts of the world. Your comments just further prove my thesis, something i had already clearly witnessed while i was living in Europe, where one can't even make a critical note regarding Israel's human right abuses without being labelled an anti Semite and losing his job, while racism against muslims and other minorities is the norm where you guys live.

Your ex girlfriend was Dutch. Your current one is Bosnian. It's clear Iranian women are not your top priority.

[JoojehKoobedeh2]

Your ex girlfriend was Dutch. Your current one is Bosnian. It's clear Iranian women are not your top priority.

sirvan jan we had your kind opinion once before i believe it was the same opinion that brought these great people to rule over our country today. keep trying to push your agenda and claim that you are right looool everyone in here riiide be heykalet dont you get enough?? like we get it you have an opinion but keep it to yourself if it isnt going in your favor after you've revealed it to us once. you can not even compare Iran and the Netherlands in terms of woman rights. The Netherlands also permits woman into stadiums as well did you know that???? Stop making a dalghak of yourself my friend

[sirvan]

sirvan jan we had your kind opinion once before i believe it was the same opinion that brought these great people to rule over our country today. keep trying to push your agenda and claim that you are right looool everyone in here riiide be heykalet dont you get enough?? like we get it you have an opinion but keep it to yourself if it isnt going in your favor after you've revealed it to us once. you can not even compare Iran and the Netherlands in terms of woman rights. The Netherlands also permits woman into stadiums as well did you know that???? Stop making a dalghak of yourself my friend

My argument wasn't that women in Holland had more rights than in Iran, clearly they have more rights. I showed clear examples of segregation in one of the most liberal countries in the world: Holland.

You respond with calling me a clown, ok whatever i don't care. Fact is that Iranian women in Iran are not allowed to attend men's matches in stadiums. And i gave my opinion about this subject wich resulted in everyone here attacking me, i responded with further elaborating my opinon as to why i believe it is a good thing that segregation exists in football stadiums in Iran.

Segregation also exists in your Western Liberal and democratic countries, when you have fixed them (as you clearly have a problem with segregation it seems), then come talk, not that it will change my opinion but it might change the opinion of other Iranians who share my view .

You can disagree with me, that's fine, but all i'm hearing is personal attacks and insults. All these statistics regarding 99% of men wanting women in football stadiums are false and based on hot air.

Fact is that the majority of Iranians i know in Iran don't have issues with this men's exclusive event. My friends and i emailed IFF and showed our support for their rule of women free football stadiums during men's football matches. None of us are religious by the way. This is my personal opinion on this matter, and i have nothing else to add on this subject for now.

Fyi etefaghan bar axe dadash, shoma bahso badjoor bakhtin. The only difference between Iran and your countries regarding segregation is that the segregation exists in different fields (fraternities and gyms vs football stadiums). If you loath segregation so much then why don't you fix them in your own countries?

[KC McElroy]

My argument wasn't that women in Holland had more rights than in Iran, clearly they have more rights. I showed clear examples of segregation in one of the most liberal countries in the world: Holland.

You respond with calling me a clown, ok whatever i don't care. Fact is that Iranian women in Iran are not allowed to attend men's matches in stadiums. And i gave my opinion about this subject wich resulted in everyone here attacking me, i responded with further elaborating my opinon as to why i believe it is a good thing that segregation exists in football stadiums in Iran.

Segregation also exists in your Western Liberal and democratic countries, when you have fixed them (as you clearly have a problem with segregation it seems), then come talk, not that it will change my opinion but it might change the opinion of other Iranians who share my view .

You can disagree with me, that's fine, but all i'm hearing is personal attacks and insults. All these statistics regarding 99% of men wanting women in football stadiums are false and based on hot air.

Fact is that the majority of Iranians i know in Iran don't have issues with this men's exclusive event. My friends and i emailed IFF and showed our support for their rule of women free football stadiums during men's football matches. None of us are religious by the way. This is my personal opinion on this matter, and i have nothing else to add on this subject for now.

Fyi etefaghan bar axe dadash, shoma bahso badjoor bakhtin. The only difference between Iran and your countries regarding segregation is that the segregation exists in different fields (fraternities and gyms vs football stadiums). If you loath segregation so much then why don't you fix them in your own countries?

You have demonstrated that Iranian women have never been your priority. Look at your ex girlfriend. And your wife.

[The Farbod]

Either what we hold to be right, and good, and true IS right and good and true for all mankind, or we're just another robber tribe.

[bozghaleh]

My argument wasn't that women in Holland had more rights than in Iran, clearly they have more rights. I showed clear examples of segregation in one of the most liberal countries in the world: Holland.
You respond with calling me a clown, ok whatever i don't care. Fact is that Iranian women in Iran are not allowed to attend men's matches in stadiums. And i gave my opinion about this subject wich resulted in everyone here attacking me, i responded with further elaborating my opinon as to why i believe it is a good thing that segregation exists in football stadiums in Iran.
Segregation also exists in your Western Liberal and democratic countries, when you have fixed them (as you clearly have a problem with segregation it seems), then come talk, not that it will change my opinion but it might change the opinion of other Iranians who share my view .
You can disagree with me, that's fine, but all i'm hearing is personal attacks and insults. All these statistics regarding 99% of men wanting women in football stadiums are false and based on hot air.
Fact is that the majority of Iranians i know in Iran don't have issues with this men's exclusive event. My friends and i emailed IFF and showed our support for their rule of women free football stadiums during men's football matches. None of us are religious by the way. This is my personal opinion on this matter, and i have nothing else to add on this subject for now.
Fyi etefaghan bar axe dadash, shoma bahso badjoor bakhtin. The only difference between Iran and your countries regarding segregation is that the segregation exists in different fields (fraternities and gyms vs football stadiums). If you loath segregation so much then why don't you fix them in your own countries?

OK so you think your thinking is rationale:
1)segreation exists everywhere is like saying crime exists everywhere. In fact this kind of argument is a prime example of what Seda o sima loves doing: how can x country (USA) criticize is for humans rights violations when they have the same there (at this point they'll show the Rodney King beating in the US or something like that) .. Sirvan we are talking about magnitude of women's rights problems and you don't have to take the word of anyone here, read a UN report or a peer reviewed article. Furthermore in most countries there are ways to address the problem (laws, courts) but these are weak to non exist ant in Iran. So please don't tell me Netherlands has discrimination as support for your argument.
2) there are book clubs and gyms, etc in the West.
These are Private Institutions, running on private money. These tend to have more leeway and Re allowed to have gender rules. TM is a Public Institution, supposedly for the mellat of Iran (Men and Women). So here you have a Public Institution discriminating against half the populace. This is a big deal. Tell me another instance of this that is going on somewhere or in history. I don't know any current examples but we can point to Apartheid in South Africa and examples like that.
3) you seem to think you and your friends or the sampling of opinions in the koocheh bazaar represent all of Iran. Have you asked the other half how they feel? Has anyone? I don't expect the polls put out by Seda and sima to be real and using latest scientific methodology. We all can agree on that.
4) Even if you are in the majority opinion, you are on the wrong side of history. Imagine if Iran were the last country to hold to slavery, and most wanted it to continue, would you be in the right? You don't even have to look into the future, take a look at what is going on in the rest of the world, do you really think the current Iranian model has answers for humanity (this is what ahmadinejad and Khamenei were always saying)?
5) Culture is not static, it is not a rock, it is always changing. You should have the ability to analyze it, criticize it, and attempt to improve upon it. To just say that's the way its always been, and that's good enough for me, that's the thinking found among religious purists (from Tel Aviv to Tehran). Progress in thought and action always has come from reflection and questioning the current norms.
6) I could go on but getting tired......

[KC McElroy]

OK so you think your thinking is rationale:
1)segreation exists everywhere is like saying crime exists everywhere. In fact this kind of argument is a prime example of what Seda o sima loves doing: how can x country (USA) criticize is for humans rights violations when they have the same there (at this point they'll show the Rodney King beating in the US or something like that) .. Sirvan we are talking about magnitude of women's rights problems and you don't have to take the word of anyone here, read a UN report or a peer reviewed article. Furthermore in most countries there are ways to address the problem (laws, courts) but these are weak to non exist ant in Iran. So please don't tell me Netherlands has discrimination as support for your argument.
2) there are book clubs and gyms, etc in the West.
These are Private Institutions, running on private money. These tend to have more leeway and Re allowed to have gender rules. TM is a Public Institution, supposedly for the mellat of Iran (Men and Women). So here you have a Public Institution discriminating against half the populace. This is a big deal. Tell me another instance of this that is going on somewhere or in history. I don't know any current examples but we can point to Apartheid in South Africa and examples like that.
3) you seem to think you and your friends or the sampling of opinions in the koocheh bazaar represent all of Iran. Have you asked the other half how they feel? Has anyone? I don't expect the polls put out by Seda and sima to be real and using latest scientific methodology. We all can agree on that.
4) Even if you are in the majority opinion, you are on the wrong side of history. Imagine if Iran were the last country to hold to slavery, and most wanted it to continue, would you be in the right? You don't even have to look into the future, take a look at what is going on in the rest of the world, do you really think the current Iranian model has answers for humanity (this is what ahmadinejad and Khamenei were always saying)?
5) Culture is not static, it is not a rock, it is always changing. You should have the ability to analyze it, criticize it, and attempt to improve upon it. To just say that's the way its always been, and that's good enough for me, that's the thinking found among religious purists (from Tel Aviv to Tehran). Progress in thought and action always has come from reflection and questioning the current norms.
6) I could go on but getting tired......

All you had to was point out that Bosnians, and not Iranians, are his first choice.

[Bessos]

Quote Originally Posted by pajamNL View Post
Womans only gym, yes there are a few , but only a few mostly used by arabs or other muslim minorities. But womans only cinema night never heard of it.
Do you have pictures of this to prove it?

Oh there are more than a few women's only gym clubs in Holland lad. Typical Dutch thing to bash your muslim minorities, but the majority members of women's gym club are non-muslim Dutch women who want to work out without men harassing them at the gym.
My Dutch female friends used to tell me that when i asked them why they go to women's only sport club. And maybe you have been living under a rock, but i used to live in The Hague for about 8 years, and my ex girlfriend used to go to the cinema for ladies night with her female friends (she was Dutch by the way and not muslim):

https://www.pathe.nl/ladiesnight

At the end of the day, that's what you people out in the West do, bash us and see us as inferior back warded beings, but you don't see your own behavior. We have the right to have our own customs and believes as much as you do, bigotry and intolerance is very much present in Western cultures, at least as much as in other parts of the world. Your comments just further prove my thesis, something i had already clearly witnessed while i was living in Europe, where one can't even make a critical note regarding Israel's human right abuses without being labelled an anti Semite and losing his job, while racism against muslims and other minorities is the norm where you guys live.

If you want to take revenge on western society for making you feel inferior, then we must beat 'em on those human rights charts. That will shut them up!

[bozghaleh]

For those keeping an eye on this topic, there's probably a lot going on behind the scenes, and we'll have to see how it shakes out ("The Dadsetan kol-Prosecutor General-comes out against women in football stadiums") :
https://www.radiofarda.com/a/iran-so.../30098084.html