TM-News-

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Originally Posted by Bi-honar

Azeez my post was in very simple English. Did I call you ajnabi parast or sycophants, whatever the hell that word means?! Or did I say anywhere that I don't have a problem with them?
If someone called you those names you have a right to have something to say about it. I don't understand, you want me to actually say something on your behalf instead of taking issue with your name calling that's directed at me?!
Sure, I guess it would seem like nonsense if you don't get it. Calling an act something is different than calling a person something. I've done some stupid things in my life and I have no problem with someone calling those acts stupid. That's not the same thing as someone calling me stupid. You really don't get that?!
Again, how did you come to that conclusion?! Did I use those terms or even approve of someone else using them?! You're going into name-calling with me and being the least bit receptive, never mind apologetic, but at the same time you want me to take a stand for you every time someone else calls you a name?!
Just because something doesn't jive with what YOU think, it doesn't make it sinister. So, someone "accused" CQ of being selfish and greedy, if that's even an accusation - everyone is greedy and selfish to some extent. Why do YOU take that personally?! How's that a personal attack on you for you to always come back with some sort of a personal attack and name calling?!
I have absolutely no problem with people pointing out flaws in my arguments. But one, that's not the same as name calling or a personal attacks and two, not everything is an argument or a statement of facts to be so black and white and have "flaws". Something's are just opinions, they're not flawed if they don't match yours, they're just different.
And yes, I don't think CQ should have been on vacation 3 days before the Palestine game and I think he takes too many vacations. That's not something that should offend you - if you don't agree with it just get over it, express your opinion and get on with it instead of bringing it up once a month.

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And this is why arguing with you is a waste of time. Nothing but melodrama and redundant nonsense. I just told you I'm not offended by your posts about CQ, you come back and tell me I shouldn't be offended by your posts about CQ! You're complaining about "personal attacks", but you call people bot parast and pretend you don't notice DD labeling people left and right. Whether it's hypocrisy or selective reading, it's really annoying to have to read and respond to. Bottom line is this is a discussion board... you're allowed to post your opinions and others are allowed to point out when those opinions make no sense. And if you don't have a problem with labels being thrown around by people who share your views, I don't want to hear all this drama. It's much more insulting to call someone bot parast (which you did) and sycophant than saying they're playstation experts when it comes to football.

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Originally Posted by xerexes

And this is why arguing with you is a waste of time. Nothing but melodrama and redundant nonsense.

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Likewise my friend. Your posts are nothing but silly immature melodramatic nonsense from a simpleton with no logic or basic knowledge!!! :rofl:

Since you don't seem to understand it any other way, maybe you will with the same colorful adjectives you have used just in this past few pages in this thread!!! :eyebrows:

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Originally Posted by Bi-honar

Likewise my friend. Your posts are nothing but silly immature melodramatic nonsense from a simpleton with no logic or basic knowledge!!! :rofl:
Since you don't seem to understand it any other way, maybe you will with the same the colorful adjectives you have used just in this past few pages in this thread!!! :eyebrows:

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Sure buddy:) You're also a bot parast with a sycophant streak and a foreign worshiping complex. Since this stuff seems invisible to you when others and even yourself write them, maybe you'll notice if I do.

Actually I'll go ahead and mention "immature and silly" too, since your Insult Detector didn't pick that up when DD said it but you went nuts when I did:)

roo ke nist mashalla...

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Originally Posted by xerexes

Sure buddy:)

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Glad we agree on something! :)

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Originally Posted by xerexes

You're also a bot parast with a sycophant streak and a foreign worshiping complex.

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Nice try buddy. I don't hold anyone sacred or immune from criticism (not even myself), so the bot-parast thing's not gonna stick - although you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

Just for the record, I never called any particular person bot-parast and merely mentioned it is a cultural issue - and that was after the usual name calling crowd, yourself included, started with your typical hissy fit that whoever doesn't agree with CQ on this issue is talking nonsense, being armchair managers and Playstation experts!

And since I never used the word sycophant or ajnabi-parast, the ongoing name calling is more a reflection on your character than mine, but that's obviously going over your head. :)

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Originally Posted by Bi-honar

Nice try buddy. I don't hold anyone sacred or immune from criticism (not even myself), so the bot-parast thing's not gonna stick - although you're certainly entitled to your opinion.
And since I never used the word sycophant or ajnabi-parast, the ongoing name calling is more a reflection on your character than mine.

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You can't be serious with this stuff. You give yourself a pass for calling people bot parast, then you cry about 'ongoing name calling' for words you never objected to when used by those you agree with until they were brought up by me to highlight your hypocrisy! This is just entering loony territory:) boro khoda shafaat bede aziz. (make sure you cry about this one too)

And you know, I just remembered: Weren't you the same guy who came up with that silly "CULC" thing?:) Wasn't it supposed to be something like "CQ unconditional lovers Camp" or something equally as childish to describe people you disagree with? Yeah, much more mature and polite than armchair managers or playstation experts. No wonder you're so sensitive to labels.

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Originally Posted by xerexes

You can't be serious with this stuff. You give yourself a pass for calling people bot parast, then you cry about 'ongoing name calling' for words you never objected to when used by those you agree with until they were brought up by me to highlight your hypocrisy! This is just entering loony territory:) boro khoda shafaat bede aziz. (make sure you cry about this one too)

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I don't know why something written which can be read over and over has to be repeated a dozen times before it sinks in, if it even sinks in:

I NEVER CALLED ANYONE BOT-PARAST IN THIS THREAD. I MERELY MENTIONED IT AS A CULTURAL ISSUE AND EVEN WENT ON TO CLARIFY LATER THAT I DIDN'T THINK ANYONE HERE IS BOT-PARAST. AND THAT WAS LONG AFTER THE NAME CALLING HAD ALREADY STARTED.

Still, if you or ANYONE else took offense to those comments I DO APOLOGIZE. And the same applies to the joke I made MONTHS ago about CULC one or two times.

Is that good enough or am I still giving myself a pass for TWO instances of questionable behavior and you're going to be talking about this for another 12 pages or 6 months without acknowledging, never mind apologizing, your questionable behavior in almost every other post?!

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Originally Posted by Bi-honar

I NEVER CALLED ANYONE BOT-PARAST IN THIS THREAD. I MERELY MENTIONED IT AS A CULTURAL ISSUE AND EVEN WENT ON TO CLARIFY LATER THAT I DIDN'T THINK ANYONE HERE IS BOT-PARAST. AND THAT WAS LONG AFTER THE NAME CALLING HAD ALREADY STARTED.

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You can go crazy with the fonts and CAPS!! but this is a cop-out and you know it. It was clearly directed at the people here on the other side of the argument. Just like that "CULC" nonsense you used to write about. And we won't mention that you still maintain you've seen nothing rude or accusatory in DD's posts! That alone gives you away.

Just out of curiosity, does xerexes has a PlayStation himself? :D

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Originally Posted by Kiarash

Just out of curiosity, does xerexes has a PlayStation himself? :D

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No. Members of CULC are required to play XBox;)

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Originally Posted by Bi-honar

I didn't say anyone here is bot-parast Arya jaan, but you have to admit we as a nation are suffering from a culture of bot-parasti - not in the sense that we worship stone idols, but in the sense that we make idols out of people (be it Cyrus, Mossadegh, the Shah, Khomeini, Daei, CQ, etc. etc.) and treat them as infallible - any criticism of such people is treated very harshly by one side or another.
I don't think CQ is a hero and I don't think he's a zero. He's done some good stuff with the team, he has put some pressure on the federation to become more professional and most TM fans love the guy, which is the most important thing to me - as long as most TM fans are happy, I'll be content if not happy. But that doesn't mean the guy's perfect, everything he think or does is perfect or that he doesn't have any room for improvement.
At the end of the day, he said during his contract negotiations that he will be helping the "U" TM's. Okay, he hasn't provided much help, but some of us don't like him to hinder their chances either.
If JB and Azmoun miss a couple of friendlies, it doesn't have a long lasting effect on TM - we have easy WC qualifiers and lots more friendlies coming up, particularly if the sanctions get lifted which is at the moment a 90% thing.
But if they miss the qualifiers and we don't make it (and again, please don't underestimate our opponents), the rest of our U-23 is going to miss out on at least two important tournaments (Asian Cup U-22 and the Olympics) and will be out of action for almost 4 years!
That's 20+ other young players who will pretty much lose their chance to get some exposure at major tournaments and become our hope for the future. Don't forget, the reason Ezi is in Atletico right now is because of the exposure he got in the U-17 world cup. As you know, the Olympics are the U-22 World Cup.

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Ba-honar jaan, you say you are not calling anyone bot-parast, but here's a quote from your earlier post "The bot parasti mentality has always been our biggest cultural problem and it obviously continues. People do not exist in between hero and zero - they have to be either infallible or nothing".

Yes, there was a time that people in general, not just us Iranians, made bot (idols) out of people (the King of Kings Cyrus, Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Genghis Khan, King Richard, Mahatma Gandhi, the Shah, Khomeini, Moghades, etc.). So as you can see bot-parasti was not only limited to our people.

This is no longer the case, information/education has made it possible for most people to make informed decision based on their own perspectives. Another reason is having the freedoms necessary to decipher for oneself right from wrong. No one is immune anymore, in other words, even the Pope, Khomeini, Pahlavi, the Queen, no one ... and I mean no one is considered a bot or an idol anymore. This is why there are oppositions, ones who agree and others who do not agree with an individual. On that note, just because someone agrees with another's perspective this does not mean that they feel the individual can do no wrong. Case in point, personally speaking I do like many things that CQ has introduced to our footballing culture, but he is not perfect, as no one is. He has made decisions in the past, be it player selection (Shojaie, Nouri, Zareh, etc.) that I did not understand or agree with at times, or certain team formations that he may field at times that I don't necessarily care for. I guess what I'm arriving at is that I think everyone here is intelligent enough to make up their own mind and I don't believe anyone here truly believes that CQ can do no wrong, nor agrees with everything that CQ says or does. Of course there are individuals whom are labeled as heroes by the masses based on some of their accomplishments, and as such are idolized by certain individuals, but this cannot be construed as bot-parasti. This is quite normal in any culture, every one of us knows an individual whom we can associate with, and may use as an example from time to time, but as I stated previously, no one is without flaws, not even our heroes.

As for his latest contractual negotiations, as I recall CQ was agreeable in meeting with the coaching/training staff for our youth teams as needed, which he is obviously doing as noted based on Khakpoor's recent interview. Not sure what other kind of help you are expecting he provide to our youth coaches, but as the full details for such meetings are not published anywhere, it would be wrong for us to suggest "he hasn't provided much help".

I believe that you and I are both concerned about our youth programs, which are practically nonexistent. This matter needs immediate attention by the IFF and our PEA governing body and they will need to heavily invest time and money in our grassroots programs if Iran is to reap the benefits in the long run.

I say again our Olympic team does/should not need these two footballers to make it out of her group, especially since we are playing on home soil.

In my opinion Azmun and Jahanbakhsh missing a couple of monster friendlies are a big deal. They need big match exposure if they are to start in place of Gucci, and others at Russia 2018. Yes I do realize that the actual WC is not for another 3 years, but for us the qualification rounds start in June of this year, and continue throughout the next couple of years, and as you know these will also serve as the 2019 Asian Cup qualifiers for us. Meanwhile, the Olympic qualifiers will start later this month and the knockout stages will continue throughout the year, and the actual Olympics are held in the Summer of 2016. So in between their weekly club duties you suggest Azmun and Jahanbakhsh play in the U23 group and knock out stages, as well as the FIFA WC/Asian Cup qualifiers, and if qualified at the 2016 Olympics. I'm sorry but that's the perfect recipe for disaster. The two will be burnt-out by the time Russia 2018 and the Asian Cup roles around, not to mention it will increase their chances at an injury by 10 fold.

These two have moved on from Omid. Also there are other worthy youngsters in our huge country of 80 million who deserve to and have been called up and can take full advantage of this golden opportunity to showcase their talent at the continental showpiece and perhaps land international contracts as the result. I say again, in my opinion including these two in the U23 qualifiers could prove counter productive, not only for the players themselves, but also for both the Omid as well as our senior teams, not to mention it would not cause for this administration to completely revamp our youth system.