Iran - Bahrain (11 Oct 2011)

[Doctor DOOM]

I guess all this would have been a bit different had it not been for the first minute send-off, which I think was justified after watching the replay and seeing the two footed direct lunge on Ando’s leg. That was the defining moment of the game which changed the whole game around for both teams. But that’s football and for once unsportsmanship and rough plays did get penalized. Anyway, on with the game.

I feel CQ is trying to bring in elements of British style of direct plays with a strong, tall center like Ghazi starting the games. Not that I have anything against this, as we need such a player to make use of our excellent wide players like mahini, heidari, hajsafi, … who can rain crosses into the box. So this is a positive thing.

But Ghazi’s most use was winning most of the aerial battles, shielding the balls and eventually feeding other players coming forward. Reminds me of the old Daei. Although he still lags behind Daei’s accuracy in goal scoring. But overall I am happy we have such a player with such characteristics in the team.


I liked how he used the flanks and insisted on stretching the Bahraini defense that I am sure, had come to close down shop and park the bus in front of the goal for 90+ minutes, relying on quick counters. Although heidari had fluctuating levels of performance but overall I think he did well and was an asset on the flank (even if his shots from the middle were typical defender-shots that usually rock the stadium clock than the net). Our right flank became a live-wire with Mahini’s entry though. This kid will go places if he keeps it up.

I’m also happy we scored an early goal. Which negated the Bahraini game plan of killing the game off with their typical grass rolling and time wasting tactics. In the first half, the more goals we scored, the more they had to come out to get something from the game. Which played into our hands. But I guess by our fourth goal all motivation and hope was squeezed out of them and they just wanted to finish the game with the least goals conceded.


Another pet peev of mine used to be long rangers that I'm happy to see CQ has insisted on it enough to see a decent number of shots from range. and our fourth was the result of this. Great to see our players take shots and try their luck from range. especially since most of them were either on target or whizzed by the post.


Players:
For me, the top player in the first half was Jabbari. He had a hand in the first goal and scored the second and helped fill Karimi’s absence in the middle. So it was a bit strange seeing him get subbed. Especially since Nekounam played a very ordinary game and was clearly below his usual levels.


In the second half Mahini and Ando were the top picks for me. Although as a whole the team played well and I am quite happy with their overall performance.

I feel we have exorcised the ghosts of 2001 game and we have finally put to rest that infernal match. It’s been a decade. But I think this was sweet, sweet revenge for us.

[Martin-Reza]

Lol, funny how short such a thread of yours can be when there is little to complain about ;).

[Doctor DOOM]

^ lol. indeed.
although we did have a few things that need smoothing over. But the scoreline is just too sweet at the moment for me to dabble in them.
:D

[Hajagha]

^ lol. indeed.
although we did have a few things that need smoothing over. But the scoreline is just too sweet at the moment for me to dabble in them.
:D
lol Yah, like your shot on Neko. It's obvious to me that you never played as a defensive mid. Otherwise, you knew how good he was. ;)

Cheers,

[yashar_fasihnia]

great result and great game.

both ando and milad's cards were stupid and unnecessary by them.

i think we should keep meydavoudi only for center forward position and compete with ansarifard and ghazi. he cant perform well where he is currently playing. mahini and kazemian are more effective there. ( i think rezaei is way out of form right now)

pouladi has certainly improved since his first days as LB but i feel he doesnt have that sense of trickery and soft ball touch which haj safi and generally successful LBs tend to have. he is more of a physicaly player who runs in a straight line until he gets tackled.

i guess queiroz prefers him cos of his body strength and height advantage over hajsafi which gives the backline a better defense.

[Hajagha]

With no doubt Man of the Match was Ando, with one super goal, two assists and winning a red card against opponent. Still even without those moments, his presence in every corner and his performance give me enough reason to crown him.

Second, I congratulate to CQ to transform the team to the current form. :)

Cheers,

[Doctor DOOM]

lol Yah, like your shot on Neko. It's obvious to me that you never played as a defensive mid. Otherwise, you knew how good he was. ;)

Cheers,

maybe. in YOUR planet.
because in MY planet "passing correctly" is also as important. ;)
and CQ had given him a distributor's role which demands far better passing quality than what he did here

besides I said below HIS levels. which means he ..... nevermind. just read the post again.

cheers back

[maij]

There are many positive points in this match that I dearly like to share with everyone.

1- Mojtba Jabbari's return to form is one hell of a good omen for Iran. His creativity along with karimi in the midfield , supported with the defensive skills of Ando and Nekounam as defensive midfielders will be absolutely perfect in the coming matches.

2- Ando Teymourian , was the man of the match for me , although it would have been a very close call if Jabbari played to the end. His value for the team in every aspect is priceless. He is a fighter , a destroyer , a leader and a fantastic shooter , with such a goal. petty that his temperament gets the better of him. I knew , I swear to it , that he would get a silly yellow card , and he did. This part of his professionalism is lacking.

3- I was so happy that Ansarifard scored and scored such a beautiful & clinical goal. This will boost his confidence after the miserable game in his last outing against Qatar , where he was a poor finisher.

4- The defense was no tested , apart from one or two scares , but I attribute that to the strong midfield and the tactics that CQ employed on pressing the opposition deep in their own half.

5- Aghily may not be the most elegent or reliable defender in the world , but his heading ability and scoring record is second to none , what a player?


For the record: I don't believe that the sending off was the reason that Team Melli crushed Bahrain. I attribute that to the tactical brilliance of the team in facing a very difficult defensive minded team. Let us not forget that Team Melli historically had problem with such teams like Jordan and Bahrain. This time , Quieroz found the key....Brilliant.

[BacheLot]

FK it
curiosity was killing me ..! couldnt wait for the full game to be uploaded..!!
dangit..! i knew id miss a dandy..!! :angry:
wow :party:
you just gotta hand it to CQ :bow: :bow:

[Hajagha]

^ Good observation Majid jan, let me add a few too.

CQ won the heart of the fans. They like him and listen to him.

Mahini goes far if he keeps the same trend.

Pooladi gets better and better.

Milad gets CQ attention even he is not 100% yet. Still, he gets benched to learn how to behave.

Cheers,

[Hajagha]

maybe. in YOUR planet.
because in MY planet "passing correctly" is also as important. ;)
and CQ had given him a distributor's role which demands far better passing quality than what he did here

besides I said below HIS levels. which means he ..... nevermind. just read the post again.

cheers back

Well, I don't remember even one ball of Neko's wrong doing. But it doesn't matter for me. His leadership and game tempo was clinical and coaches should force their players to watch how he controlled the whole game. I recommend you to watch how he forced his forwards to come back and gets the ball from him rather to stay on the defense line and wait for the ball. He had a few moments with Khalatbari and Jabbari that told them what to do. Later on, whenever he gets the ball, the whole team was moving UP and DOWN and gets wider too. Watch the forth goal (I guess, maybe another one) and you see what I mean.

Cheers,

[Babak agha]

Good game by Iran and especially by Ando. Although he really got a stupid card. He's becoming more and more improtant and his set pieces are a very important factor of our game. Eventhough Jabbari had an Ok game, I think we still need Karimi as our CAM.
Meydavoudi shouldn't be placed on the wing, he's more a CF/ST, however it wasn't entirely his fault that his influence on the game was marginal, he mainly got hopeless balls from Neku and Jabbari.
Ghazi showed that he can help TM with his physical and aerial abilities. For his size he's suprisingly agile, although he wasn't lucky with his actions today, but I think he can improve.

Overall we did good and finally there's some structure in our game. Players don't seem clueless anymore and play with a plan. Good job by Qz so far and with the addition of players like Karimi, Shojaei and Dejaghah there might be some good times ahead of us.

[maij]

^ Good observation Majid jan, let me add a few too.

CQ won the heart of the fans. They like him and listen to him.

Mahini goes far if he keeps the same trend.

Pooladi gets better and better.

Milad gets CQ attention even he is not 100% yet. Still, he gets benched to learn how to behave.

Cheers,


Thanks Reza Jan , and spot on with Milad's benching. Although , I cannot swear to it , but I strongly believe that Meydavoudy was subbed out because of that silly push that got him booked.

This type of acts by Milad and to certain extent , Ando's foul , dose not belong to a World Cup Qualifying game football match. Nor is it anywhere near professional. This is more like the stuff of children playgrounds , when kids shove each other and end up in a fight or something. Team Melli definitely does not need that.

I have been an admirer of this Bushehri player , Mahini , since he was in the U 23 or the Olympic team. Really a sharp player who is quite good defending and attacking. With a coach like CQ , he can only develop to a better player. He is also level headed and I can't recall him getting silly cards or getting in trouble.

I would not rest tonight unless I comment on Khalatbary.



He had another awful game. Useless dribbles , ineffective passing and showtime acting. In fact he was disengaged from the team , that really did some good teamwork for a change , and this guy stuck like a sore thumb. I don't know how many more games we have to wait to see a half decent game by him. I would categorize him in the group of "Bi-Mokh" players that have adorned Team Melli through the years.
There was quite a few of them too , the last famous one was Madanchi:D

I have always admired GR Rezaei though and so glad that he eventually scored. Bless him.

[Hajagha]

^ Again good points. Khalatbari is not in his prime.

Since you are resting and I am still restless to say:

I wanna kill this Mirzaei guy with his stupid comments on players. can you please stick to the SIMPLE REPORTING and shut up of being cool?

akheish, I am cooled off too. :D

Cheers,

[maij]

^ Again good points. Khalatbari is not in his prime.

Since you are resting and I am still restless to say:

I wanna kill this Mirzaei guy with his stupid comments on players. can you please stick to the SIMPLE REPORTING and shut up of being cool?

akheish, I am cooled off too. :D

Cheers,

Khoob...hala ke joftomoon Khalish kardim , pas...Shab Be Khair :D

[Doctor DOOM]

Battering Bahrain, Iran finally exorcises a ghost (http://directkicks.blogspot.com/2011/10/iran-trounces-bahrain-and-finally.html)




http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5_JQFne3XlU/TpTHKDOEmCI/AAAAAAAAAPo/0kNwMn83JSs/s320/13900719214245_PhotoL.jpg (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5_JQFne3XlU/TpTHKDOEmCI/AAAAAAAAAPo/0kNwMn83JSs/s1600/13900719214245_PhotoL.jpg)




If the ghosts of the 2001 match in Manama were not exorcised by the 4-2 win in the Asian Cup 2004 or the 1-0 win that sealed Iran’s qualification for the 2006 world cup, then today’s 6-0 route certainly put it to a final rest.




In 2001 Iran lost to Bahrain under extremely suspicious and strange circumstances and ended up watching Bahrain players wave not their flag since they were already eliminated, but the flag of Saudi Arabia over their heads and rejoice as if it was them who had qualified with this win. That memory had remained with most Iranian fans and ever since this tie had carried a certain grudge match baggage that have seen plenty of rough and rash plays, scuffles and fights and generally bad blood between the two teams.





http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-UXigMyvw2MQ/TpTHEVnmzdI/AAAAAAAAAPg/GKxym0QWU38/s320/13900719232617_PhotoL.jpg (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-UXigMyvw2MQ/TpTHEVnmzdI/AAAAAAAAAPg/GKxym0QWU38/s1600/13900719232617_PhotoL.jpg)




But today, Bahrain had nobody else to blame but their usual rough (and often unsportsmanlike) tactics for the disparity the faced for nearly the entire game. A rash two-footed lunge on the feet of Teymoorian saw the Bahraini defender see the (brave) Australian referee whip out the red card. From then on, it was smooth sailing for Iran and an up-hill battle for the Bahrainis.




An early goal within the first 20 minutes also made sure the Bahrain players would not resort to their usual time wasting tactics and they were forced to open up and come forward to get the equalizer. This played right into Iran’s hands as now they were allowed to play football in a more relaxed and open atmosphere. With some great performances from the likes of Jabbari, Teymoorian and Ghazi we exerted tremendous amount of pressure and eventually scored 3 goals and missed a few more by the halftime.



This was pretty much the same plot for the second half as Teymoorian scored the fourth goal soon. The goal that dropped the heads of the opponents and after this the Red team were only desperately waiting for the referee to blow the final whistle. But Iran was not done yet. With goals from substitutes Ansarifard and Rezaei they finished the match with half a dozen goals that made the 83,000-plus fans in the stadium jubilant and in festive mood.



http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-BBkaAgE7jXw/TpTGijkJA3I/AAAAAAAAAPY/Azd_oqLgONY/s320/Multimedia_pics_1390_7_Photo_2284.jpg (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-BBkaAgE7jXw/TpTGijkJA3I/AAAAAAAAAPY/Azd_oqLgONY/s1600/Multimedia_pics_1390_7_Photo_2284.jpg)




Players that impressed were Mahini, who’s been blazing a trail in recent months in both club and national team. Teymoorian, who looked tireless and full of drive and energy. Jabbari, who made Karimi’s absence not felt and Ghazi, whose role as the big, strong center forward paid off very well. Ghazi’s duties resembled the old Daei who used his body strength and height to gain the upper hand in aerial balls, shield the ball well and feed the surging players from sides. This was a welcome addition to the usual Team Melli strategies as it brought in a British direct style of play into the team. Flanks and the wide players ruled the day as we had cross after cross raining in on the opponent box which caused much trouble for them.




Another positive was seeing the team attempt long rangers, most of which were either on target or whizzed by very close to the posts. Not to mention the best goal of the game, a thunderous 30+ yarder from Teymoorian.


But it is the final point that brings me joy. And that is to see Team Melli not retreat and retract as soon as it scores a goal or two. Until the dying seconds of the game our lads showed hungry and went looking for more and more goals. This is what has been missing in quite a few years in Team Melli as coach after coach, in continental and international games adopt an overly cautious side that often caused the team to suffer loss of precious points as they either exchanged wins with draws or in some cases, a defeat. But today I saw the hunger not only in the faces and movement of the players, but also in the face of the coach. And this gives me hope.




Scorers: jalal Hosseini, Mojtaba Jabbari, Hadi Aghili, Andranik Teymoorian, Karim Ansarifard and Gholamreza Rezaei.



http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qN6BYnzp7Pk/TpTHQeB6SmI/AAAAAAAAAPw/syiFAk9I4DU/s320/705586_orig.jpg (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qN6BYnzp7Pk/TpTHQeB6SmI/AAAAAAAAAPw/syiFAk9I4DU/s1600/705586_orig.jpg)

[Hadi]

a pretty good match for us, although the whole flow of the match changed when the Bahraini player was red carded in the second minute. It was obvious that Bahrain had come to defend, and defend in numbers. And I am afraid they may have succeeded if their player had not made that stupid tackle.
Many have already pointed out the positives and I will not repeat them, so I will focus on the weaknesses that I saw:

it is easy to forget the weaknesses and negative points after a 6-0 win. Nevertheless, here they are (in my eyes):

-Our defensive line has made no improvement at all in play-making. Aghili and Hosseini still play from deep, their footwork is poor, they do not play close to midfield, they are slow, and they still like to play long direct balls into the opposing half. In today's modern football, the central defenders are the very first play makers, feeding the ball into space and/or quickly to the playmakers and midfielders. In our football, they keep ping-ponging the ball among themselves and then suddenly playing a long direct ball.

-I am sorry to say this, But Khosro Heydari just isnt TM material. He is OK when we play a weaker team but I wonder how he will survive both defensively and offensively when we play A class Asian sides. His only positive aspect is his crossing ability. He can't run with the ball well, he cant jump well, he cant finish well, he is not the fastest rocket in the world, and his defensive abilities are pretty weak.

-TM still lacks in offensive ideas. I admit, it is not easy to carve open a team who is defending with 10 men (or in this case 9), but we simply do not have the star quality to string quick passes, one twos, dribbles and off-ball runs and strike through the heart of the defense. We still get forced to the flanks and play long crosses from the sides, or as ever, we are superb on set pieces (corners, free kicks and throw-ins) and score from deadballs. Sure we scored 6 goals but more than half of them were from set pieces or long shots. We could never play good through passes, create one on ones or dribble their defense. Again I admit it is NOT EASY to do so when the other team is defending with layers upon layers but we need to be able to be more creative, quick and technical in the opposing box if we want to qualify to the World Cup.



Some sidenotes:

1) CQ won the hearts of fans indeed. He requested fans to turn up with white T-Shirt or white symbols and I think half of the fans did so. It was very smart of CQ to communicate directly with the fans and build a relationship. Now expect his name to be chanted in the stadium, just like how 'Branko Branko' was shouted during the 2006 campaign.

2)If I were CQ, I would have subbed Meydavoodi IMMEDIATELY after his stupid pushing incident. I can not believe how stupid and dumb this kid Meydavoodi is. Giving ref an excuse to retaliate with another red card while we had not even scored yet! I guess CQ did not want to destroy him and left the subbing until the half-time

3)This was the first time in a long time that our coach really had a hunger for goal. His subs were offensive and he kept encouraging players to go forward. A few instances when our players played slow and back-passes, you could obviously see on the TV camera that CQ was frustrated and fuming!

4)The pressure is now off of CQ and TM and I hope he tests more players and invites new and motivated faces and finds the prefect lineup for the later stages. Every foreign coach in Iran has found his talents. Ciro nurtured and introduced players like Nekonam, Rahman Rezaie, Mirzapor and Nikbakht. Branko gave life to players like Alavi, Badavi, Kameli, Kazemian, Kabi, Nosrati.
Now it is time to CQ to give us a few star players.

[Doctor DOOM]

1- I think with the return of karimi and hadadifar, we'd see more through passes from the middle, which would add an extra dimension to our attacks.
today, nekounam was supposed to do the distribution and frankly he wasnt up to the mark ... no matter how much we like him.

2- meydavoudi was subbed out becoz I think refs sometimes try to even things up if a red card is given. so I think more than milad's unprofessional push, it was the fact that he had a yellow and could have been the prime candidate for the second yellow.
so I think more than "teaching meydavoudi" , CQ subbed him out in order to prevent us losing a man sometime along the second half.


3- yes, khalatbari may have been selfish on a few occasions. He shd be straightened out and told to relax. maybe lay off high glucose drinks to calm himself down.
But I vehemently object to ppl who say he doesnt belong to the TM. he deserves it more than quite a few who get free rides to TM squads. the fact that we have someone who's nippy enough, pacey enough and skillful enough to ...(for lack of an equivalent english word) bepichooneh be ham (tie them in a knot?) the opponents' defenders with his quick feet is a great asset to any team. that is besides his great uses in counter-attacks.

4- I still say maybe if that red card was a yellow, maybe things wouldnt have been as rosey as now.
yes, we would have definitely won the game. but by this margin and with such ease? I doubt it.

[Adesor Vafaseya]

With no doubt Man of the Match was Ando, with one super goal, two assists and winning a red card against opponent. Still even without those moments, his presence in every corner and his performance give me enough reason to crown him.



indeed! same here!

Ando did a great job!!!

[Paradigm]

I am not sure being a man down is necessarily the reason for Bahrain getting thrashed. I was just watching Brazil-Mexico game today and Brazil was a man down (Danny Alves was sent off) and a goal down, but still managed to beat Mexico 2-1 with two nice goals. (Brazil even saved a Mexico penalty kick.) Btw. do you think Shojaie will be useful to the current team?

[Hadi]

I am pretty sure it was.

Just wait until the return leg and see how we play there. It is highly likely we end up with a draw at manama

[yashar_fasihnia]

the question is with the return of hadadifar, who will start, teymourian or hadadifar?

[Hadi]

i would start both at manama. bring in Hadadifar for Jabari

[KasraKhan]

He had another awful game. Useless dribbles , ineffective passing and showtime acting. In fact he was disengaged from the team , that really did some good teamwork for a change , and this guy stuck like a sore thumb. I don't know how many more games we have to wait to see a half decent game by him. I would categorize him in the group of "Bi-Mokh" players that have adorned Team Melli through the years..

I agree and I came here to post the same thing about Khalatbari.

I think fans like him just because he can do a step-over dribble which pleases the eye. But if you look on a deeper level, he is somewhat of a black hole and is the only player on TM that I can label as selfish. Also, he is already 28 and getting up there in age. He will be 31 by the time WC2014 rolls around. I really want CQ to use Hajsafi at his natural post, but I'm in no position to doubt a professional's judgment on his craft.

I think Khalatbari's starting spot will be in jeopardy once Shojaei returns from injury.

[Hadi]

i disagree.

Khalatbari is extremely useful in TM. He is selfish and hot tempered but his magic in a moment or two can turn a game around.

Its up to the coach to make best use of him and train him to be as useful as possible.

[KasraKhan]

True, he does have that magic spark that can turn a game around, but how often does it really come out? He has 2-3 bad games, and then 1 good game.

I think TM is really deep right now and we really don't need to waste a starting spot on such an inconsistent player. But again, I don't wanna question CQ :D

He only has two goals in TM with 42 caps. Nothing amazing at all.

[yashar_fasihnia]

i would start both at manama. bring in Hadadifar for Jabari


ayy namardd, ay khaennnn,, ye zamann signaturet jabbari bud, hala dige vase hadadifar nimkat neshinesh mikoni??? az posht khanjar mizani??? :D



i would keep the same line up we played today, except maybe replace meydavoudi with mahini.

im not a big fan of ghazi, but then again, he has his advantages over ansarifard and meydavoudi. so i really dont care which of they 3 play as our center forward.

[Babak agha]

It'll be really interesting to see what CQ is gonna do when Karimi, Shojaei, Haddadifar and Dejagah will be available. I think Jabbari will be subbed out for Karimi, Nekounam is a fix so nothing happens there. Also I don't think Haddadifar could take Ando's places.
The most interesting part is Shojaei, what will CQ do with him? Is he gonna prefer Shojaei above Khalatbari? I don't think the right-wing will be an option, as Dejagah looks to be getting our fix right-winger. He could also play as CAM, but I think Karimi and Jabbari are ahead of him for that position.

[RaginG Inferno]

lol Yah, like your shot on Neko. It's obvious to me that you never played as a defensive mid. Otherwise, you knew how good he was. ;)
Cheers,
He's very, very good. He fulfils his role perfectly: Excellent maintenance of possession (he almost never loses a ball), no risky passes, and excellent long ball distribution. I sometimes shake my head in disbelief at the accuracy of his long range balls.

[Doctor DOOM]

on Nekounam:
it is one thing to speak of a player in general terms. and it is another to talk specifically about a game.
in THIS SPECIFIC GAME, nekounam's passing was sub par on most occasions. sometimes too soft, sometimes too hard. a bit loose or even a few mis-passes. watch the game and you'd discover this.

now, does that mean he CANT PASS? no. But today, when the role of the "distributor" was given to him, he didnt exactly deliver. maybe somebody else shd take up the role of the distributor of the ball and let Nekounam do what he does best.

besides, if you all have kept track of his games you'd have to agree, in general terms, his passing may be correct and accurate but it is very cautious conservative passing.
for example in his club and in TM games, if he has two options; one to his side and one more forward (deeper into the opponents lines), he almost always chooses the lateral pass.
this conservatism has been mentioned many times before too.
so when a player slowly gets tuned to this kind of passing, suddenly asking him to distribute the ball (with mostly up front, becoz we were attacking incessantly), then we'd see a new facet of his passing.


on Khalatbari:
look guys, those who know me here, also know that I am hardly impressed by "flash or dribbling". But khalatbari brings in a very lively element to any team he plays in, that many other pacey players (like gh rezaei or ... ) just fail to bring.
so obviously he has that extra bit that distinguishes him from the rest.

the problem is "HOW & WHERE" he is used. if you push him to one side, away from the middle and expect all his stuff from him, then you are wasting your time.
he is the perfect mold to the azizi of the old daei-azizi forward duo.

and in case some of us have forgotten what impact he can have in a team, we might want to watch some of TM games where he has played and most importantly, watch zob-ahan's games before and after his departure to know his impact

[Martin-Reza]

I am pretty sure it was.

Just wait until the return leg and see how we play there. It is highly likely we end up with a draw at manama

Agreed, if I had to bet, I'd put my money on a draw.

And btw, I liked how Khalatbari played yesterday. He more played like a playmaker than a winger and did very well.

[maij]

It is quite interesting to read all the differing views, and as it was a fantastic result for the boyz and we are all in a jolly mood , I would like to stir things up a bit or up the ante :D

Somehow I detect that some of our friends here analyze a player based on REPUTATION rather than actual PERFORMANCE !
So , if player x is a good dribbler and crosser of the ball , then he remains a good player , regardless to how he actually performs in the match !!

To me , it is no good that Nekounam is what he is , if he does not perform on the pitch. What good is a reputation if it is not utilized and yields results? I specifically took Nekounam's because I agree on the Doc's analysis of him. Yes, he is a good passer of the ball , but yesterday he was in his own cocoon with very little creative or imaginative play or contribution. Quite conservative , if I may say , and that is a continuation of his not-so-brilliant performance since the Asian Cup.

NOW...we all know that Javad can be 10 times better , he can be a match winner , he could be the key player , single-handed he has saved the team , he could be many things good and we have already seen it this remarkable player in years ...the reality is ...He wasn't all those mentioned in yesterday's game. As simple as that. The Doc is spot on on this one.

But....then the Doc , had a few minutes break and took a complete U turn when mentioning Khalatbary's case , who can "brings in a very lively element to any team he plays in..." !!

Wait a minute Doc , we know the capabilities of Nekounam and Khalatbary , I thought we are talking PERFORMANCE , DELIVERY , ACTUAL YIELD, that you complained about Nekounam not providing , but how come this is not applied to Khalatbary!!

Where is the beef?


Although , I agree on what Hadi said about the defense , I fail to see how he managed to get all those analysis in Bahrain's game when the defense was HARDLY tested?

Yes , those shortcomings of defense defiantly exists in the current squad , but for the life of me , I did not feel or observe such weakness yesterday.


All those aside , the statement that Khakatbary is very good , is simply so unique and an eye opener for me , which has made me doubt my physical and mental capabilities. I will print "Khalatabary very good" , as it sounds so poetic , frame it and stick it right in front desk , as a reminder of how old have I become and how lame my observation is and finally how those young comrades of ours excel in their analytical power.:D

[Hajagha]

^ Should I say I disagree with what you said about Nekonam and his game? No, I said it before, but I say it again anyway. :D

Yesterday, Nekonam was not supposed to have golden passes. He was not attacking mid. His role was to initiate which side we should start penetrating, left, right or deep without LOSING the ball in that area to force the the whole team to march back and defend? This means cautious passes which are far from "golden passes". He was the composure and he did it perfectly in my book. Besides, he was the inside coach. Look how much he was talking to his players one line in front of him at the beginning of the game.

Yes, he didn't score. That's why he seemed to be ineffective, but you gotta give DOUBLE credit to the leader of the team who lead his team for a historic win. That's all.

Proving my points watch the first minute of highlights of the following game (Iraq-China) and see for yourself that all highlights were from turnovers where DMs are playing.

Cheers,

w1Ccq0-9eVE&feature=player_embedded

[Doctor DOOM]

but majid jan, I did not deny khalatbari's few selfish moves and in fact did mention them. however I objected to some ppl (I think in the general forum also) who said he doesnt belong to the TM.
by the same token, even if nekounam has an off day I dont recommend throwing him out of the roster.

in other words, I acknowledge khalatbari's mischief and have always agreed he needs to lay off the high sugar drinks that gets his blood pumping too much adrenaline and he gets hyper and does crazy things once in a while. But at the same time, he is one of those key players who can single handedly turn a game too. just ask asian giants al-hilal or the south korean ACL former champs they defeated last season.

a good coach recognizes his uses and sits him down and drills some discipline into him. not throw him out of the roster.

as far as "yield" is concerned, i think he did help the team a bit. the second goal was off his cross, for example. and there were plenty of occasions he single handedly created dangerous chances in the box and in front of the goal .. which resulted in the chaotic and confused defending in bahrain camp.

gun to the head, I'd say he was a 6-6.5 , while neku (great in defensive duties. mehhhh in offensive ones) was at best a 7 ... while jabbari, ando, ghazi, mahini ... were all in comfortable 8's and 9's

[zzgloo]

CQ......is for real......
.
New in TM under CQ :
.
1-Fresh talents.
2-Left back problem solved.
3-Young and experinced mixture of players.
4-No longer,taking the ball to the corners and crosses.....and more attacks from center and through the middle.
5-Shots on goals,far away shoots.
6-No hashieh.
7-Better transitions from the midfield to the offensive players.
8-better defense.,and more involvement of all defensive players during the attacks .
9-Better finishings.
10-Team work,and not just expectations from super stars.





.

[Doctor DOOM]

Not sure if we can say the left back problem is "solved" yet.
simply becoz we havent faced a team that puts our defense under decent pressure yet. from the first game CQ took over till today our defense has had a comfortable and relaxed ride. none of madagascar, qatar, maldives, bahrain, indonesia had kept any sustained pressure on our defense for us to know how the defense and specifically the LB would act under decent pressure.
one reason why our defenders feel more comfortable coming forward and joining in attacks.


but I reckon we dont have to wait too long. the next round facing (and there's no escaping) big guns like south korea, japan, aussies, ... will finally give us the answer if we have indeed found the solution to the LB or not.





getting the measure of CQ:
expressly thinking about assessing CQ's impact on the team, I really wish that red card hadnt been given, so today we could assess CQ with more assuredness. back there ... in the back of my mind I'm still not convinced by this game and for good reasons too. apart from the red card, lets not forget this was bahrain. and we can only imagine the amount of determination and motivation among our lads to deal them a blow. The kind of extra determination and drive that may not necessarily be present facing a team like south korea or japan or uzbekistan. not to mention would CQ be driving everyone forward till the dying seconds of the game had it been an 11 man opponent or a slightly more powerful one like uzbekistan or south korea? I'm not so sure, although I'd LOVE to see this to be true. that would give me extreme pleasure.


so while I admit the team has certainly and palpably improved and the trend is a positive one. I'm not going to base all my assumptions on this one game.

[Hadi]

ayy namardd, ay khaennnn,, ye zamann signaturet jabbari bud, hala dige vase hadadifar nimkat neshinesh mikoni??? az posht khanjar mizani??? :D



i would keep the same line up we played today, except maybe replace meydavoudi with mahini.

im not a big fan of ghazi, but then again, he has his advantages over ansarifard and meydavoudi. so i really dont care which of they 3 play as our center forward.

Jabbari is still a very good player but he somehow isnt the same man after his long injuries. He is slower and less creative.

[RaginG Inferno]

^ Should I say I disagree with what you said about Nekonam and his game? No, I said it before, but I say it again anyway. :D

Yesterday, Nekonam was not supposed to have golden passes. He was not attacking mid. His role was to initiate which side we should start penetrating, left, right or deep without LOSING the ball in that area to force the the whole team to march back and defend? This means cautious passes which are far from "golden passes". He was the composure and he did it perfectly in my book. Besides, he was the inside coach. Look how much he was talking to his players one line in front of him at the beginning of the game.

Yes, he didn't score. That's why he seemed to be ineffective, but you gotta give DOUBLE credit to the leader of the team who lead his team for a historic win. That's all.

Proving my points watch the first minute of highlights of the following game (Iraq-China) and see for yourself that all highlights were from turnovers where DMs are playing.

Cheers,

w1Ccq0-9eVE&feature=player_embedded
Exactly. It's not Nekounam's role to create opportunities, it's merely to distribute the ball safely to those who should. If he contributes well to attack, that's a bonus. I thought his defensive contribution was excellent. He really has a good ability to position himself correctly - when to track a player, when to engage, when to observe, when to go forward, when to stay back.

I thought he had some really nice moments where he gave some beautiful, accurate long balls to switch play when it was bunched up.

[RaginG Inferno]

Not sure if we can say the left back problem is "solved" yet.
simply becoz we havent faced a team that puts our defense under decent pressure yet. from the first game CQ took over till today our defense has had a comfortable and relaxed ride. none of madagascar, qatar, maldives, bahrain, indonesia had kept any sustained pressure on our defense for us to know how the defense and specifically the LB would act under decent pressure.
one reason why our defenders feel more comfortable coming forward and joining in attacks.


but I reckon we dont have to wait too long. the next round facing (and there's no escaping) big guns like south korea, japan, aussies, ... will finally give us the answer if we have indeed found the solution to the LB or not.





getting the measure of CQ:
expressly thinking about assessing CQ's impact on the team, I really wish that red card hadnt been given, so today we could assess CQ with more assuredness. back there ... in the back of my mind I'm still not convinced by this game and for good reasons too. apart from the red card, lets not forget this was bahrain. and we can only imagine the amount of determination and motivation among our lads to deal them a blow. The kind of extra determination and drive that may not necessarily be present facing a team like south korea or japan or uzbekistan. not to mention would CQ be driving everyone forward till the dying seconds of the game had it been an 11 man opponent or a slightly more powerful one like uzbekistan or south korea? I'm not so sure, although I'd LOVE to see this to be true. that would give me extreme pleasure.


so while I admit the team has certainly and palpably improved and the trend is a positive one. I'm not going to base all my assumptions on this one game.
That's a very reasonable comment. It's too early to make definitive conclusions, but we can be happy with the upward trend that we have witnessed.

[maij]

^ Should I say I disagree with what you said about Nekonam and his game? No, I said it before, but I say it again anyway. :D

Yesterday, Nekonam was not supposed to have golden passes. He was not attacking mid. His role was to initiate which side we should start penetrating, left, right or deep without LOSING the ball in that area to force the the whole team to march back and defend? This means cautious passes which are far from "golden passes". He was the composure and he did it perfectly in my book. Besides, he was the inside coach. Look how much he was talking to his players one line in front of him at the beginning of the game.

Yes, he didn't score. That's why he seemed to be ineffective, but you gotta give DOUBLE credit to the leader of the team who lead his team for a historic win. That's all.

Proving my points watch the first minute of highlights of the following game (Iraq-China) and see for yourself that all highlights were from turnovers where DMs are playing.

Cheers,


Reza jan...based on you answer of this question , I can easily handed it you and accept your argument unconditionally.

The question " How did you know for sure that Nekounam's role in Bahrain game and after the dismissal of a defender is what you suggested in your post ?".

is it by pure speculation ?
is it because you firmly believe that his tasks , should be the ones you mentioned.
is it because Nekounam has done that in some games before ?
is your source close to the team Melli camp and or the coach?
is it any other reason that I cannot think of right now?Mokhlis.

[maij]

but majid jan, I did not deny khalatbari's few selfish moves and in fact did mention them. however I objected to some ppl (I think in the general forum also) who said he doesnt belong to the TM.
by the same token, even if nekounam has an off day I dont recommend throwing him out of the roster.

in other words, I acknowledge khalatbari's mischief and have always agreed he needs to lay off the high sugar drinks that gets his blood pumping too much adrenaline and he gets hyper and does crazy things once in a while. But at the same time, he is one of those key players who can single handedly turn a game too. just ask asian giants al-hilal or the south korean ACL former champs they defeated last season.

a good coach recognizes his uses and sits him down and drills some discipline into him. not throw him out of the roster.

as far as "yield" is concerned, i think he did help the team a bit. the second goal was off his cross, for example. and there were plenty of occasions he single handedly created dangerous chances in the box and in front of the goal .. which resulted in the chaotic and confused defending in bahrain camp.

gun to the head, I'd say he was a 6-6.5 , while neku (great in defensive duties. mehhhh in offensive ones) was at best a 7 ... while jabbari, ando, ghazi, mahini ... were all in comfortable 8's and 9's

I did not debate whether Khalatbari should be in or out of the team , but maybe you were getting that idea from some of the members in the other forum.

I am very much an advocate of the English and European school of thought when it comes to judgment on players. In a simple form it means that it is no good being Cristiano Ronaldo , Rooney or Messi , if you cannot deliver the goods , week in & week out. Of course footballers are human and one can't expect them to be operating like robots, but at some stage they have to deliver. They don't care much and do not have time to talk about the goal that the player has scored ten years ago from 40 yards , they want to see him perform and excel here and now !!!

I believe there is some stereo-typing when it comes to judging players and quite a bit of emotions. Karimi has dribbled a few Arab defenders , then he is set for life, Nekounam was the star of the match vs Korea on 2007, then he is untouchable ... and so on.

I can only speak for myself , of course, and say that I have seen these player hundreds of times which is enough to create an impression and at least know their ability. So, now that I know this , all I want to see is for those players to translate that capability on the match day NOT and yield result rather than rave about his past achievements and indemnify him for a series of abysmal performances.

I think I have beaten the subject to death :D

[Hajagha]

^

Majid jan, my answer is some thing between the following two:

is it by pure speculation ?
is it because you firmly believe that his tasks , should be the ones you mentioned.

It was my observation of the game.

From what I saw, I think the game formation was 4-1-4-1. Seeing that Nekonam is receiving all the balls from the D and start to distribute it and also from my knowledge of the game how such a player in that position should play.

My primary example as a role model came to my mind during the game to evaluate him was Xavi Alonso. Besides, I have played myself the same position and picture myself and Alonso (not much difference :D ) to that position.

Cheers,

[zzgloo]

CQ......is for real......
.
New in TM under CQ :
.
1-Fresh talents.
2-Left back problem solved.
3-Young and experinced mixture of players.
4-No longer,taking the ball to the corners and crosses.....and more attacks from center and through the middle.
5-Shots on goals,far away shoots.
6-No hashieh.
7-Better transitions from the midfield to the offensive players.
8-better defense.,and more involvement of all defensive players during the attacks .
9-Better finishings.
10-Team work,and not just expectations from super stars.
.
It may be soon to judge how good TM is........but there is nothing wrong with assessing what seems different under CQ....such as above observations......
We need to at some time , begin to see what is different about CQ.....
here is what jallali said........
مجید جلالی در گفت*و*گو با ایلنا:

سال*ها تیم ملی را اینقدر آماده ندیده بودم


,TM...may be not ready to take on Japan or South Korea just yet....but, considering the Time CQ has been at work, and comparing it with the same time spent by previouse two head coaches...........there are positive developements....may be not enough yet....but still positive.....and small indication of where CQ is heading.

[maij]

^^^^^^^^

What happened Bahram Agha ?, you got lost or something ?:D

I am pretty sure you mean to post in a different thread.

[zzgloo]

^^^^^^^^

What happened Bahram Agha ?, you got lost or something ?:D

I am pretty sure you mean to post in a different thread.
Majid jaan salam.....
Thanks for noticing my absence....!
I was in IRAN, for a month ....and have some nice photos from my trip and visiting Azadi stedium....Esteghlal vs PP, and Esteghlal vs saipa...but I do not know how to shrink the size of the photos to post them for my fellow members here........
It is good to be back !
...
Regarding The Saudis.......the AFC site believes they have major problems with thier offense.......and tie in Oman,and another tie in bankok...and 3-1 loss at home vs Australia.......does not sound like a team who has his acts together.

[maij]

^

Majid jan, my answer is some thing between the following two:

is it by pure speculation ?
is it because you firmly believe that his tasks , should be the ones you mentioned.

It was my observation of the game.

From what I saw, I think the game formation was 4-1-4-1. Seeing that Nekonam is receiving all the balls from the D and start to distribute it and also from my knowledge of the game how such a player in that position should play.

My primary example as a role model came to my mind during the game to evaluate him was Xavi Alonso. Besides, I have played myself the same position and picture myself and Alonso (not much difference :D ) to that position.

Cheers,


Baaah...Chaker Reza Jan Aziz Hastam.

I suspected that you were speculating:D.

In that case ( speculating) then the argument is wide open for much debate. What is I said to you that CQ wanted a full throttle attack on Bahrain ? Did you see how he was waving his hands angrily telling the players to go forward? In fact even the news wires reports mentioned that CQ wanted a more offensive team even when they were 4 goal up.

I am no where near the standard of CQ technical abilities in training , but when it comes to football strategy , one can simulating the thoughts going inside a coach. I would really go for the jugular when I see a team is there for the taking like the case was against Bahrain, I am strongly SPECULATING , (with the added bonus of proof from TV and news reports) that Queiroz was thinking the same and going for the jugular ass well.

Based on that , I thought that Nekounam's contribution was quite modest to be respectable to him , but if I need to be a bit more forceful , I would say that he had a poor game for a player in his caliber and reputation.

[maij]

Majid jaan salam.....
Thanks for noticing my absence....!
I was in IRAN, for a month ....and have some nice photos from my trip and visiting Azadi stedium....Esteghlal vs PP, and Esteghlal vs saipa...but I do not know how to shrink the size of the photos to post them for my fellow members here........
It is good to be back !


Bah Bah,,,Rasidan be khair. Inshalla ke khosh gozasht.

There are many applications you can use to decrease the size of the image. The best is Paint.net , it is a fantatstic tool for photo editing , save and convert to different formats, simple to use , has nearly everything you can think of (photo tools) and best of all , it is free.

you can download it here (http://www.getpaint.net/download.html)

Welcome back.

[maij]

Exactly. It's not Nekounam's role to create opportunities, it's merely to distribute the ball safely to those who should. If he contributes well to attack, that's a bonus. .


I am speculating , that you are also speculating on Nekounam's role.:D:D

[zzgloo]

Jalla Talebi's assesment

..........

ايران - بحرين /22
طالبي: رشد تاكتيكي تيم ملي ايران تحسين برانگيز است
تهران - سرمربي تيم ملي فوتبال ايران در جام جهاني 1998 فرانسه معتقد است كه تيم ملي كشورمان رشد تاكتيكي چشمگيري كرده است.


جلال طالبي سه شنبه شب در گفت و گو با خبرنگار ورزشي ايرنا، افزود: تيم ملي بحرين در ديدار مقابل ايران حرفي براي گفتن نداشت و بازيكنان ما در تمام سطوح بازي برتر از حريف بودند.
وي ادامه داد: تيم بحرين در ديدار با ما هيچ حرفي براي گفتن نداشت و بازيكنان ما نگذاشتند آنها تاكتيك هاي خود را در زمين پياده كنند.
سرمربي اسبق تيم ملي فوتبال ايران گفت: پيشرفت بازيكنان تيم ملي كشورمان در اين ديدار بسيار تحسين بر انگيز بود و اميدوارم اين روند ما ادامه داشته باشد.
وي تصريح كرد: تيم ملي ما با اين پيروزي پتانسيل هاي خود را براي صعود به جام جهاني نشان داد و اميدوارم تيم ملي كشورمان را در جام جهاني ببينيم.
وي اظهار داشت: تفكرات حرفه اي كي روش در تيم ملي ما به خوبي ديده مي شود و اين مربي تاثير مثبتي در تيم ايران داشته است.
9118/1647

.................................................

Majid jallali's Assesment;
........
مجید جلالی در گفت*و*گو با ایلنا:

سال*ها تیم ملی را اینقدر آماده ندیده بودم

.................................................. .............................................
What is appear to be CQ's work so far..
.....
1-Lack of hashieh,and peace with media.
2-Bringing many new talents,obviously based on his own judgements.
3-Appearance of gaining the players' trust.
4-new tachtical implementations...such as midfield smoother transfers to offense,...and attacks down through the middle ( as oppose to long time taking the ball to the corner and cross ),..Long distance shots on opponant's goal,.....more attacking defense ( all 4 defensive players involment in attacks ),.....etc,etc..
5-No promises.
.......
It may be soon to judge CQ, as we and him both need time.....but so far so good !

[Babak agha]

Perhaps only in Iran, and in the mind of Iranians, a DM shouldn't build up the game and only needs to give "safe passes".

In other countries even defenders are judged on their build up qualities, through passes and crosses (which neku almost lack in every game recently).

Neku isn't even the type of Nigel de Jong or Gatusso, with rough physical play. Hell even Karimi has more slidings and interseptions in a game compared to neku recently.

And even de Jong is being replaced by van der Vaart & Strootman, because he can't build up and plays "safe passes".

All of the good DM of today can play through passes, build up game, and join the attack next to defending (Xabi Alonso, Toure, Meireles, Busquet, etc etc.)

Neku plays weak pure and simple. Especially if you concider the fact that he used to have pin point crosses, could slow or rush the game when needed, created a lot of opportunities for the forwards and joined the attack once in awhile, just a couple years ago.

[maij]

Perhaps only in Iran, and in the mind of Iranians, a DM shouldn't build up the game and only needs to give "safe passes".

In other countries even defenders are judged on their build up qualities, through passes and crosses (which neku almost lack in every game recently).

Neku isn't even the type of Nigel de Jong or Gatusso, with rough physical play. Hell even Karimi has more slidings and interseptions in a game compared to neku recently.

And even de Jong is being replaced by van der Vaart & Strootman, because he can't build up and plays "safe passes".

All of the good DM of today can play through passes, build up game, and join the attack next to defending (Xabi Alonso, Toure, Meireles, Busquet, etc etc.)

Neku plays weak pure and simple. Especially if you concider the fact that he used to have pin point crosses, could slow or rush the game when needed, created a lot of opportunities for the forwards and joined the attack once in awhile, just a couple years ago.


Good points.

Just to put the records straight , the term DM (Defensive Midfielder) is not used anymore , at least NOT in England and with English commentators. The new term is "Holding Midfielder"

I am not fully aware on the background and reasons for such title change, but some of what you mentioned here , is quite relevant in such title change and could form some of the reasons behind it.

Yes, a holding midfielders' job is not to simply square passes to his teammates but a hell of a lot of things more including scoring. I witness these guys tens of times every week in the European leagues. Anyway , I do not wish to prolong the discussion as it is perfectly clear what the roles are , notwithstanding specific instructions by the individual coaches addressing specific situations (like one player short in either teams)

About Nekounam. I have a feeling that he might have not recovered fully or if he has , there is always that psychological hurdle that he needs to pass and that is "the fear of re-occurring injury". That might have mellowed him and resulted in his cautious approach during Bahrain game. Saying that , I still stand firm that his performance was quite modest and short of aspiration.

[maij]

Jalla Talebi's assesment

..........

ايران - بحرين /22
طالبي: رشد تاكتيكي تيم ملي ايران تحسين برانگيز است
تهران - سرمربي تيم ملي فوتبال ايران در جام جهاني 1998 فرانسه معتقد است كه تيم ملي كشورمان رشد تاكتيكي چشمگيري كرده است.


جلال طالبي سه شنبه شب در گفت و گو با خبرنگار ورزشي ايرنا، افزود: تيم ملي بحرين در ديدار مقابل ايران حرفي براي گفتن نداشت و بازيكنان ما در تمام سطوح بازي برتر از حريف بودند.
وي ادامه داد: تيم بحرين در ديدار با ما هيچ حرفي براي گفتن نداشت و بازيكنان ما نگذاشتند آنها تاكتيك هاي خود را در زمين پياده كنند.
سرمربي اسبق تيم ملي فوتبال ايران گفت: پيشرفت بازيكنان تيم ملي كشورمان در اين ديدار بسيار تحسين بر انگيز بود و اميدوارم اين روند ما ادامه داشته باشد.
وي تصريح كرد: تيم ملي ما با اين پيروزي پتانسيل هاي خود را براي صعود به جام جهاني نشان داد و اميدوارم تيم ملي كشورمان را در جام جهاني ببينيم.
وي اظهار داشت: تفكرات حرفه اي كي روش در تيم ملي ما به خوبي ديده مي شود و اين مربي تاثير مثبتي در تيم ايران داشته است.
9118/1647

.................................................

Majid jallali's Assesment;
........
مجید جلالی در گفت*و*گو با ایلنا:

سال*ها تیم ملی را اینقدر آماده ندیده بودم

.................................................. .............................................
What is appear to be CQ's work so far..
.....
1-Lack of hashieh,and peace with media.
2-Bringing many new talents,obviously based on his own judgements.
3-Appearance of gaining the players' trust.
4-new tachtical implementations...such as midfield smoother transfers to offense,...and attacks down through the middle ( as oppose to long time taking the ball to the corner and cross ),..Long distance shots on opponant's goal,.....more attacking defense ( all 4 defensive players involment in attacks ),.....etc,etc..
5-No promises.
.......
It may be soon to judge CQ, as we and him both need time.....but so far so good !


I don't know which new talents or debutant Quieroz has brought in the team , perhaps you could remind us , but something that really caught my eyes in Bahrain game is the amount of possession and inter-passing that the Boyz went through in the whole match.

There is nothing I loathe about a team more than when the players try to send high balls (route one) or get rid of the ball in anyway they can. Also add to this list , when a player takes far too much time to pass the ball or act upon it. OK , we did see some unnecessary ball holding , but not significantly to screw things up.

Team Melli seems to play the modern passing game , Arsenal and Barcelona style. Keep the ball amongst your team mates , open up the opposition , make them chase shadows , tire them out......AAhhh...that is my joy in watching a team. CQ is obviously an advocate of such football and I dare to say that he is going to build on it and subsequently we see a very jelled and solid team and hopefully less of Aghili's crazy long range , Hail Mary , passes.

[Babak agha]

I use DM because it's shorter to write, people recognize it (HM wouldn't be recognized by everyone, and it's used in FIFA games :D

There is a difference between a DM and a HM (at least in Dutch terminology and players responsibility)

A DM is purely defensive minded, a la de Jong. He is there for hard tackels and physical playes. A holding Midfielder is a playmaker playing closer to the defense. Like Schweinstiger, Xabi Alonso, the old Neku, van Bomel, Pirlo, Essien, Toure, Barry, Meireles etc.

There aren't that many "real" DM in modern football. Most teams use holding midfielders who next to defending can buildup the game and dictate the pace of it.

[RaginG Inferno]

I am speculating , that you are also speculating on Nekounam's role.:D:D
You know, that's a very reasonable point. It also highlights the fundamental reason for our disagreement.

I have interpreted Neku's role a little differently to yours - which makes our assessments different...they are not based on the same criteria.


In any case, I felt that he could have played better. However, I was very satisfied with his safe play which kept possession with Iran, and didn't allow Bahrain to form any attacks. I didn't feel that he needed to be adventurous either, given our numerical advantage.

[Hadi]

i would not over analyze Nekonam's performance in this match
the opposition was just too weak to give us any useful analysis.

Also I am sure Carlos had a whole different tactical approach to the match but the whole picture changed when Bahrain were down to ten men.

Probably the team was supposed to play a controlled game in the first half with Nekonam a deep Defensive Mid. role and a simple ball distributer but when Bahrain went down to 10 men and were playing so weak, maybe he could have upped his pace a little and played a bit more forward.

[zzgloo]

I don't know which new talents or debutant Quieroz has brought in the team , perhaps you could remind us , but something that really caught my eyes in Bahrain game is the amount of possession and inter-passing that the Boyz went through in the whole match.

There is nothing I loathe about a team more than when the players try to send high balls (route one) or get rid of the ball in anyway they can. Also add to this list , when a player takes far too much time to pass the ball or act upon it. OK , we did see some unnecessary ball holding , but not significantly to screw things up.

Team Melli seems to play the modern passing game , Arsenal and Barcelona style. Keep the ball amongst your team mates , open up the opposition , make them chase shadows , tire them out......AAhhh...that is my joy in watching a team. CQ is obviously an advocate of such football and I dare to say that he is going to build on it and subsequently we see a very jelled and solid team and hopefully less of Aghili's crazy long range , Hail Mary , passes.
I agree with your technical observation.....
As for new players, it seems on each of TM games, there is one new face that has never played for TM...not just for the bench,but on the field starting......I do not even remember thier names....this time was the guy with goat beard.....there was maziar Zare last time, and then our new left back......etc,etc......many first timers...not just getting invited, but also starting the game.

[Babak agha]

Hadi jan,

Especially in a game like last one you should zoom in on the performance of Neku.

We all know that Neku isn't a master tackler, a rough physical player, nor is he fast enough to be the interceptor. So he isn't the pure defensive midfielder like de Jong, Diara etc. where you can forget the "safe" passes in favor of good defending.

He is there to dictate the game, and start the attacking game of TM, especially since our CBs are not capable of doing that. If Aghili and Hosseini keep playing the "safe" pass to eachother, the LB, RB, and the DM, then we can't complain too much a this is TM and not Holland, Spain, etc. But when the fisrst half of your team lacks creativity then you have a problem.

It means that the second half of your team (from the AM to ST) has to both buildup the game and finish the attack, which is not realistics, especially for 90 min. And the lack of creativity and ability of building up a forward play (throu the center) is obvious in TM, as the AM and the forwards come to collect the ball instead of thinking about positioning themselves for a run.

And if Neku can't perform well against a 10 men team, by distributing the ball, dictating the pace of the game, swapping the side where the forward rushes take place by crosses etc, then he won't be able to do it against better teams with 11 players who actually pressurize you. Then he definitely will keep playing the "safe" passes.

Furthermore, who are we kidding? This isn't the first "bad" (at least below his potential) game by Neku. He's only lucky that he scores often (only from corners, and free kicks. Which Hosseini and Aghili cam too) which masks his poor performances.

[maij]

You know, that's a very reasonable point. It also highlights the fundamental reason for our disagreement.

I have interpreted Neku's role a little differently to yours - which makes our assessments different...they are not based on the same criteria.


In any case, I felt that he could have played better. However, I was very satisfied with his safe play which kept possession with Iran, and didn't allow Bahrain to form any attacks. I didn't feel that he needed to be adventurous either, given our numerical advantage.

it is interesting to debate Nekounam's role and performance as it takes me back to the Asian Cup days in Doha . We had several round-table ( tables full of foods and drinks:D) debates in the media centers amongst the Iranian media personnel about the players including Javad. Like one expects , there were differing opinions but the majority felt that Javad could do better. There was one exception of an extreme viewpoint by one journalist who was the editor-in-chief of a major Iran daily sport newspaper. His comments are not printable , sufffuce to say that it was not complementary at all towards Nekounam.:mad:

I am personally not satisfied with Nekounam. I am not talking this match against Bahrain , of course , but series of matches. However , as a fan there is little than we can do or say about it. I just hope that whatever hinders Nekounam to play towards his potential , is addressed and resolved by a shrewd man like CQ.
I am also not worried abou Nekounam not being able to play, as the midfield is the richest of all the lines in Team Melli and there are quite a few options available.


Last but not least , I fundementely differ with you on the concept of "Safe play". This term is used when a team is playing against a stronger * better opposition , and you are leading by a 1 goal margin and want to waste time without grass-rolling. Else safe square passing can be carried out by thousands of players in the league , there is no specialty or skill in that. Why should Nekounam occupy a place for safe passing?

[RaginG Inferno]

it is interesting to debate Nekounam's role and performance as it takes me back to the Asian Cup days in Doha . We had several round-table ( tables full of foods and drinks:D) debates in the media centers amongst the Iranian media personnel about the players including Javad. Like one expects , there were differing opinions but the majority felt that Javad could do better. There was one exception of an extreme viewpoint by one journalist who was the editor-in-chief of a major Iran daily sport newspaper. His comments are not printable , sufffuce to say that it was not complementary at all towards Nekounam.:mad:

I am personally not satisfied with Nekounam. I am not talking this match against Bahrain , of course , but series of matches. However , as a fan there is little than we can do or say about it. I just hope that whatever hinders Nekounam to play towards his potential , is addressed and resolved by a shrewd man like CQ.
I am also not worried abou Nekounam not being able to play, as the midfield is the richest of all the lines in Team Melli and there are quite a few options available.


Last but not least , I fundementely differ with you on the concept of "Safe play". This term is used when a team is playing against a stronger * better opposition , and you are leading by a 1 goal margin and want to waste time without grass-rolling. Else safe square passing can be carried out by thousands of players in the league , there is no specialty or skill in that. Why should Nekounam occupy a place for safe passing?
I think you're concentrating a little too much on your unhappinesss with his 'safe passing' without considering his other positive attributes.

He also has excellent positioning. He knows when to fall back, he knows when to stay forward, he knows when to track a player, he knows when to tackle. It's really difficult to observe when you're not in the stadium, but he is so smart off the ball which makes his contribution seem effortless. I think the game against Qatar really showed that - our midfield seemed significantly weaker in controlling possession.

He also made some excellent switches of play with impressive accuracy. He has that vision and accuracy with the long ball that is unique amongst Iranian players/

I do agree that his approach was a little too cautious on a few occasions, but I am happy with how he played overall.

Anyway, it's certainly something to keep an eye on over the next few games.

[Doctor DOOM]

I think we all at least, agree he is a very good players. but like the rest of the players, not indispensable or irreplaceable. EVERY SINGLE player in TM is replaceable .... maybe with the exception of rahmati & hosseini ... perhaps.


the only thing imo is he shdnt be given the task of distributing the ball. he simply is not as imaginative and creative as a playmaker or distributor ought to be. hopefully with the return of hadadifar, he can take over this role, leaving nekounam to concentrate on what he does best.

.... which raises another major problem; whom to sacrifice for hadadifar. ando seems to have hit a high note and is doing well. karimi is a crowd favorite and he seems to be doing well too (given enough rest time between games). quite a dilemma for CQ

and that's what most iranian coaches have faced. an embarrassment of riches in the midfield

[zzgloo]

Players like Nekunam....are in a emotional roller coaster !!!
Who knows what kind of life he has in Spain, and what kind of situation he is under in Ossasuna, with a higher demanding system...when he is asked to come and play for TM..in middle of his already tense life style....when he travels from " TIME TUNNEL ", and goes to a third world country ....
He is bound to be always inconsistant !

[Babak agha]

^Maybe true

But it should be worse for African and S. American players, but we don't see them "suffering".

And it's not like Neku goes to halabi abad, he is a rich super star in Iran who treated with more "respect" and "chabloosi" in Iran than in Spain, so......

[RaginG Inferno]

I think we all at least, agree he is a very good players. but like the rest of the players, not indispensable or irreplaceable. EVERY SINGLE player in TM is replaceable .... maybe with the exception of rahmati & hosseini ... perhaps.


the only thing imo is he shdnt be given the task of distributing the ball. he simply is not as imaginative and creative as a playmaker or distributor ought to be. hopefully with the return of hadadifar, he can take over this role, leaving nekounam to concentrate on what he does best.

.... which raises another major problem; whom to sacrifice for hadadifar. ando seems to have hit a high note and is doing well. karimi is a crowd favorite and he seems to be doing well too (given enough rest time between games). quite a dilemma for CQ

and that's what most iranian coaches have faced. an embarrassment of riches in the midfield
It's a good problem to have, as you recognise.

It seems good to stick with the existing arrangement, but if we see problems in the midfield, then we should reconsider the arrangement as appropriate.

[maij]

Players like Nekunam....are in a emotional roller coaster !!!
Who knows what kind of life he has in Spain, and what kind of situation he is under in Ossasuna, with a higher demanding system...when he is asked to come and play for TM..in middle of his already tense life style....when he travels from " TIME TUNNEL ", and goes to a third world country ....
He is bound to be always inconsistant !

Bahram Jan.

The last thing I will be concerned with , is the social and financial affairs of the Iranian players.

Make no mistake , these players ( and I am talking about those who play in Iran , not the expatriates) earn so much money and have so much clout , it makes a mockery of the claims by Iranians who always and systematically complain about lack of money ( at least the ones I always seem to meet in Iran :D). Of course , I have sympathy with people in Iran because their income and wages is so low compared to neighboring countries , and to my surprise , Tehran is an expensive place to live. But with footballers...it is 180 degrees turn in fortune.

No need to mention names , but when a 22 or 23 years old footballer drives to the practice ground in a series 5 BMW or latest Lexus, ( I am sure you know how much these cars cost in Iran) it says a lot about the footballers in the Iranian society and parity with other employees or professionals. Watching these rich boys in practice are hundereds and sometimes thousands of poor boys who come across from the remotest areas in dahat, some of whom only dream. is to shake hand with his idol or if he is lucky , to take a quick snapshot. I also like to add that not all of these footballers have PR manners, some of them are arrogant and down right rude , not to mention what they call "Hersat" , normally the least educated of people taking care of security.

Anyway , I wouldn't feel sorry for the Iranian footballers emotional roller coaster. It is a measly inconvenience compared to the dollars they earn.

[zzgloo]

Bahram Jan.

The last thing I will be concerned with , is the social and financial affairs of the Iranian players.

Make no mistake , these players ( and I am talking about those who play in Iran , not the expatriates) earn so much money and have so much clout , it makes a mockery of the claims by Iranians who always and systematically complain about lack of money ( at least the ones I always seem to meet in Iran :D). Of course , I have sympathy with people in Iran because their income and wages is so low compared to neighboring countries , and to my surprise , Tehran is an expensive place to live. But with footballers...it is 180 degrees turn in fortune.

No need to mention names , but when a 22 or 23 years old footballer drives to the practice ground in a series 5 BMW or latest Lexus, ( I am sure you know how much these cars cost in Iran) it says a lot about the footballers in the Iranian society and parity with other employees or professionals. Watching these rich boys in practice are hundereds and sometimes thousands of poor boys who come across from the remotest areas in dahat, some of whom only dream. is to shake hand with his idol or if he is lucky , to take a quick snapshot. I also like to add that not all of these footballers have PR manners, some of them are arrogant and down right rude , not to mention what they call "Hersat" , normally the least educated of people taking care of security.

Anyway , I wouldn't feel sorry for the Iranian footballers emotional roller coaster. It is a measly inconvenience compared to the dollars they earn.
Majid Aziz..
I totaly agree...as far as thier life style...and what I meant was because of that ....
How could a young arrogant good looking guy like nekunam...with couple of girl friends and perhaps a misteres....with a top of the line car,and a modern apartement..going to top places,in Spain...and under a very different management system in osasona.....all of the sudden get a plain and a 5 hour flight go to Iran, with third world country standard and islamic limitations,and time difference ...and be on the field next day...and play with efficiency ?
I myself, that I not very rich, feel disoriented for a whole week when I go to IRAN...and not just time wise, but as for " Culture shock " !

[Nokhodi]

Majid Aziz..
I totaly agree...as far as thier life style...and what I meant was because of that ....
How could a young arrogant good looking guy like nekunam...with couple of girl friends and perhaps a misteres....with a top of the line car,and a modern apartement..going to top places,in Spain...and under a very different management system in osasona.....all of the sudden get a plain and a 5 hour flight go to Iran, with third world country standard and islamic limitations,and time difference ...and be on the field next day...and play with efficiency ?
I myself, that I not very rich, feel disoriented for a whole week when I go to IRAN...and not just time wise, but as for " Culture shock " !

I'm sorry zzgloo jan, but that logic is completely outdated, especially for the newer generation of Iranians.
If you're talking about jetlag, thats' natural. But it applies for almost all international players, particularly Asians, Africans and South Americans. Does it mean Messi is less professional? Or Kaka, or....
Trust me these guys are waited on hand and foot when they're Iran. If they have 1 mistress in Spain, they have 10 in Iran. They have tons of real estate, commercial ventures, vehicles.... in Iran and even outside.
They don't need our pity or excuses.

[zzgloo]

I'm sorry zzgloo jan, but that logic is completely outdated, especially for the newer generation of Iranians.
If you're talking about jetlag, thats' natural. But it applies for almost all international players, particularly Asians, Africans and South Americans. Does it mean Messi is less professional? Or Kaka, or....
Trust me these guys are waited on hand and foot when they're Iran. If they have 1 mistress in Spain, they have 10 in Iran. They have tons of real estate, commercial ventures, vehicles.... in Iran and even outside.
They don't need our pity or excuses.
Nokhodi and Majid e aziz........
I keep getting misunderstood.....and since by two of you I was misunderstood,..the fault must defenetly be mine.
Here is what I mean........When you go from Europian or Americaan life style, and enter IRAN...with all low class cars,andrun down buildings,and all Islamic limitations,and all male population ( as women are not seen in public as much,and if there is they would be with " Maghnae & Chador ",and all stupid elementary system,etc,etc,etc......for a very good while, the traveler is in state of " Culture Shock "....specialy with so much contrast........
In fact, I believe even, Messi of Argentina,would feel the same for a short while, and not be as efficient when he goes back and play " Immidiatly " for Argentiaan national team..unless after a while staying in the country .

[Doctor DOOM]

last couple of weeks we've been talking about khalatbari's selfishness. while it is true that he sometimes behaves selfishly and tries to do everything by himself, I wanted to point out that there are far greater and more famous players that behave just as selfishly and waste chances when they could get goals with just a simple pass. namely messi, who's been showing selfishness bordering on criminal, in both la liga and champs league games at barca.

been making life so difficult for himself by trying to weave through 4-5 defenders that a simple square pass would have put his mates in goal scoring positions

so I guess this selfishness IS a part of the genius players/strikers

[Babak agha]

So how selfish are: Xavi, Ineasta, Fabregas, Gerard, Silva, Ozil, Muller, Sneijder etc etc? Or the oldies Maradona, pelatini, Pele, Gullit,......

Selfishness is (usually) a sign of/due to immaturity, and you can't do anything about it, time and age will cure it. Remember the young Karimi versus the Karimi of recent years?

Another major factors causing selfishness is the lack of vision, overview, self control, mental weakness etc.

[maij]

Nokhodi and Majid e aziz........
I keep getting misunderstood.....and since by two of you I was misunderstood,..the fault must defenetly be mine.
Here is what I mean........When you go from Europian or Americaan life style, and enter IRAN...with all low class cars,andrun down buildings,and all Islamic limitations,and all male population ( as women are not seen in public as much,and if there is they would be with " Maghnae & Chador ",and all stupid elementary system,etc,etc,etc......for a very good while, the traveler is in state of " Culture Shock "....specialy with so much contrast........
In fact, I believe even, Messi of Argentina,would feel the same for a short while, and not be as efficient when he goes back and play " Immidiatly " for Argentiaan national team..unless after a while staying in the country .

OK...I see your point clearly now.

[maij]

last couple of weeks we've been talking about khalatbari's selfishness. while it is true that he sometimes behaves selfishly and tries to do everything by himself, I wanted to point out that there are far greater and more famous players that behave just as selfishly and waste chances when they could get goals with just a simple pass. namely messi, who's been showing selfishness bordering on criminal, in both la liga and champs league games at barca.

been making life so difficult for himself by trying to weave through 4-5 defenders that a simple square pass would have put his mates in goal scoring positions


so I guess this selfishness IS a part of the genius players/strikers


I have no quarrel with that selfishness theory, but there is no way that you can compare the ability , the product , the effectiveness , the yield and the standard of Messi to Khalatbari.

Messi can afford to be selfish , because he can score in one out of three selfish attempts and his records tell. What about Khalatbari's scoring record at club and Team Melli's level?