If Asian Cup was next week...

[Martin-Reza]

...which 23 players would you nominate?

My current choice would be:

Goalkeepers: Mehdi Rahmati, Shahab Gordan, Ebrahim Mirzapour
Defenders: Hossein Kaebi, Khosro Heydari, Jalal Hosseini, Hadi Aghily, Mohammad Nosrati, Farshid Talebi, Hanif Omranzadeh, Hassan Ashjari
Midfielders: Javad Nekounam, Andranik Teymourian, Pejman Nouri, Ghasem Hadadifar
Strikers: Masoud Shojaei, Gholamreza Rezaei, Mohammad-Reza Khalatbari, Ashkan Dejagah*, Mehrzad Madanchi, Karim Ansarifard, Mohammad Gholami

Standby: Alireza Haghighi, Sheys Rezaei, Hamidreza Aliasgari, Farzad Ashoubi, Milad Zanidpour, Milad Meydavoudi, Mehrdad Oladi

* If Dejagah is unavailable, I'd pull in Oladi

[Doctor DOOM]

- I'm so tickled by seeing mirzapour as an option that beats watching two hours of south park :o (that was your "opening joke" to loosen the audience, right?)
I'd bring up haghighi/mohamadi instead.


- in defense, I'd replace omranzadeh with mahini. for the 2 CD spots you have 4 different candidates (the 4 best in iran for the post), but for LB, you only have ashjari.
(dont even start me on nosrati as LB. that horse has been beaten a million times)

- since you put the premise on asia cup this week, I'd replace madanchi with meydavoudi . madanchi hasnt been playing for a long time now.

- in reserves, I'd replace ashoubi (yet another def mid. seems your obsession with more & more DM's still continues) with mobaali (he still has 9-10 assists, despite not starting frequently) to at least provide some options going forward instead of packing the team with defensive players. we cant be that scared about everything.


aside from these 4 changes, I pretty much back your selection


but then again, we have rarely been VERY different in selection of players. the difference comes with the attitude of the team and how it configures on the pitch.
I like a more positive, forward looking attitude with emphasis on playmaking, and you've always liked more and more defensive tactics and a team packed with def mids (as if having more DM's automatically translates into a secure goal! the more, the merrier, eh? ).


I'd say given the above roster a 4-4-2 or a 4-3-3 would serve us well.

[Doctor DOOM]

what?
nobody chimed in?

:D really? ..... do we (me and martin) have to fight and argue to make a thread interesting so ppl can jump in and remark?

now, without an argument it's boring and not worth your time? :o
:rofl:













to mods: plz install some new smileys/emoticons for:
1- "mocking"
2- "sarcasm"
I'm tired of using :o for both the above when it doesnt really convey the punch

[kami_kakashi]

Why can't we take Afshin. even a one eyed coach can see the kid has potential. Tall, fast, technical, young, etc... Give him to an European coach and we will be sorted up front.

[yashar_fasihnia]

GKs: rahmati, gordan, haghighi
defenders: kaebi, mohammad hosseini, aghili, jalal hosseini, talebi, montazeri, mahini, ashjari
midfielders: nekounam, teymourian, pejman nouri, khosro heydari, gholam reza rezaei, shojaei, mohammad nouri, khalatbari, zeneydpour
strikers: ansarifard, meydavoudi, oladi


stand by: mohammadi, nosrati, sina ashouri, sattar zare, ali askar, mobali, gholami

[ShirFarhad]

Goalkeepers: Mehdi Rahmati, Shahab Gordan, Alireza Haghighi

Defenders: Mohammad Hosseini, Khosro Heydari, Jalal Hosseini, Farshid Talebi, Hadi Aghili, Mohammad Nosrati, Hassan Ashjari, Hossein Mahani

Midfielders: Javad Nekounam, Andranik Teymourian, Pejman Nouri, Masoud Shojaei, Mohammad Nouri, Ashkan Dejagah, Gholamreza Rezaei, Mohammad-Reza Khalatbari

Strikers: Milad Meydavoudi, Karim Ansarifard, Mohammad Gholami, Arash Afshin

Standby: Mohammad Mohammadi, Hanif Omranzadeh, Sattar Zare, Hamidreza Aliasgari, Sina Ashouri, Bakhtiar Rahmani, Mehrdad Oladi

I would have included in Sheys Rezaei if he wasn't excluded from his team.

[Doctor DOOM]

oh, totally forgot about mohamad hosseini.
I'd put him above kaabi at the moment.

I sincerely hope ghotbi or whoever the TM coach is takes notice of how poor rahmati performed (by his high standards) in china and makes mehdi understand nothing is granted, least of all his starting position at TM. a few games starting with gordan would be like a waking slap in rahmati's face to get back to practice and improve himself.


******************
as for injecting a whole bunch of youngsters into the team, I believe it needs time especially when they are at this age. sudden injection usually dont have the desired effect. but I'd be open to including 2-3 omid players AFTER the asia cup to allow them enough period to settle in.

but with asia cup next week or even next 2 months, it's not going to help either us or the youngsters.

[zzgloo]

martin's selection is just about the best selection ....

1- The problem with left corner has been persisting for far too long......and the simplest answer,IMHO, is forgetting about a left footed ball players.we simply have much less to choose from, and we simply do not have enough talents.as left footed.

2-With unsatisfactory performance of our defense, it is absolutly rediculus, not to invite " NOSRATI ".....he is the most versetile/experinced player in the whole team....,specialy for teams who have absolutly not much other wise....,even his bashers should want him for sub duties.....while I see him well suited at the left back, ( considering currant shortage of talent at defense ).

3- Hossaini did recieve a valuable experince in the Asian games.

4-Kabei should also be invited.

5- Ghotbi will do a better job than expected,while he is doomed and nothing will be good enough at this stage.....even though, he proved he knew Koreans like palm of his hand !!

[Doctor DOOM]

....even though, he proved he knew Koreans like palm of his hand !!

why such a superficial view, bahram jan?
this is exactly what's ailing our football : ppl looking only at the score board.

in what way do you say he say he knew them like the back of his hands?
I'm really tempted to ask you about how we scored our goal. becoz that would reveal a lot.

[zzgloo]

why such a superficial view, bahram jan?
this is exactly what's ailing our football : ppl looking only at the score board.
in what way do you say he say he knew them like the back of his hands?
I'm really tempted to ask you about how we scored our goal. becoz that would reveal a lot.
payman jaan.....
Lets try to be as objective as we can.....
Iranian TM football is going through its bad times....the talent level is low,and japan South Korea, have passed us by....and to be fair, we are not as good as they are......
While, I have stoped blaming our TM coaches for all our shortcomings....,and I totaly do not subscribe to a mass bashing of Ghotbi....I also do not think he is super duper either....just better than he has been credited for....
The first game with Ghotbi,against South Korea, we tied , and had thier manchester player not single handedly scored a late goal, TM would have won that game......the secound game, Ghotbi did it............
I personaly, credit TM win in seoul, solely to Ghotbi......as even , if you remeber ( If you do not,I can provide the video of South Korean comprehensive analysis of the game,and thier admiration of Ghotbi's strategy), the South Koreans credited Ghotbi for his clever use of his understanding of koreans........we were not good enough to beat them, we beat them only because of strategic game plan of Ghotbi, that was used to take advantage of thier style.......
we did not win because of better personel, nor because of higher class of football...................
Again, we are not talking about him being the TOP coach, we are talking about him being better than Ali Daei, or Payrovani,etc.....and we are talking about him deserving to be supported on his last 2 months of his Job, and the fact that he will be the Coach of TM during the next month asian tournement........

[Doctor DOOM]

......the secound game, Ghotbi did it............

I personaly, credit TM win in seoul, solely to Ghotbi......as even , if you remeber ( If you do not,I can provide the video of South Korean comprehensive analysis of the game,and thier admiration of Ghotbi's strategy), the South Koreans credited Ghotbi for his clever use of his understanding of koreans........we were not good enough to beat them, we beat them only because of strategic game plan of Ghotbi, that was used to take advantage of thier style.......

we did not win because of better personel, nor because of higher class of football...................

.......


dont want to be a saggak, but I did ask you a question about "how we scored the goal" that has prompted you to shower such credits on ghotbi again(above red).
because it seems you dont recall how it was done.

once you remember it then we can arrive at how ghotbi deserves the credit or how he "strategized" that.
agreed?


2- the next point is how you painted a picture that ghotbi knew koreans so well to "cleverly" devise counters to it and ... etc etc etc.
here also I need to know you have watched the game and remember how it was played. coz I have quite contrary views on this point too.

[Martin-Reza]

Just a quick note, no coach goes into a tournament with 4 centrebacks only. You always select 5 (or at least have 5 players who can also play there), that's why I take Omranzadeh over another leftback. For leftback I'd have 3 options anyways, with Ashjari, Nosrati and Pejman Nouri in the squad. Also in emergency, Omranzadeh would be another DM option as well.

[zzgloo]

dont want to be a saggak, but I did ask you a question about "how we scored the goal" that has prompted you to shower such credits on ghotbi again(above red).
because it seems you dont recall how it was done.

once you remember it then we can arrive at how ghotbi deserves the credit or how he "strategized" that.
agreed?


2- the next point is how you painted a picture that ghotbi knew koreans so well to "cleverly" devise counters to it and ... etc etc etc.
here also I need to know you have watched the game and remember how it was played. coz I have quite contrary views on this point too.
Payman jaan, ....
do n't juts pick and choose what ever serves you...please pay attention to the point I made.....
We beat Korea , only because of Ghotbi's knowledge of Korea, not because of our superiorety......
If you want to zero in on how the Goal was scored, it is your choice...but you are missing the point intentionaly or mistakenly....
The video analysis that every one saw here on PFDC, was done by korean analysts......,in which they thanked Ghotbi to show thier short-comings,Ghotbi's use of extra DM to prevent Korea's advancement,use of DM to attack the ball on point of origin,that is DMs did not allow defenders to send balls to the middle, and counter attacks,and defensive strategy,etc,etc....
How and who scored the goal, is far less important than...
Why Koreans could n't score....
Why Koreans were out of thier comfort...
why Iran controled the game....
why Iran won the game.......

Ghotbi, has had decent results...
Ghotbi TM has played against better teams..
Ghotbi proved he knows Koreans...
Ghotbi deserves support for up coming games....

Ghotbi,is not the right person to blame for short comings....

[Doctor DOOM]

so shd I surmise that you either dont remember the game and especially dont remember how we scored the goal. or are just avoiding the acknowledgment.

either way I see you trying to credit ghotbi with the korean defender's silly amateurish mistake/inability to trap a simple ball which bounced off his leg and fell to ando (but Mr. goodarzi has no relation to Ms. shaghayegh).
you want us to believe ghotbi "knew" and "strategized" on this mistake since he'd seen it in his crystal ball and ... etc.

or btw, while we are at it, lets forget how magnificently he handled the koreans by allowing them to consistently jab at us from flanks. that was some marvelous coaching to ignore the strengths of the opponents. Ooophh!

by just writing "ghotbi knew this and that" doesnt make it real.
what is real is we were GIFTED by a silly, childish mistake of a defender failing to trap the simple ball. NOT through our tactics or ....
and thanks to rahmati who has become ghotbi's guardian angel by saving his arse game after game.
never mind how ghotbi still didnt show he was able to handle the koreans' strength which is their wide plays and flanks.

no. lets just keep repeating things, ... enough number of times, hoping it would turn to reality!

[Ali Chicago]

Pretty much the current TM plus a few Zob Player. Specially Hadadifar their Capitan. I also invite Ansarifard and Afshin from U21. Plus Oladi. Haven't seen Kaabi, so can't say yay or nay to his selection.

[zzgloo]

so shd I surmise that you either dont remember the game and especially dont remember how we scored the goal. or are just avoiding the acknowledgment.

either way I see you trying to credit ghotbi with the korean defender's silly amateurish mistake/inability to trap a simple ball which bounced off his leg and fell to ando (but Mr. goodarzi has no relation to Ms. shaghayegh).
you want us to believe ghotbi "knew" and "strategized" on this mistake since he'd seen it in his crystal ball and ... etc.

or btw, while we are at it, lets forget how magnificently he handled the koreans by allowing them to consistently jab at us from flanks. that was some marvelous coaching to ignore the strengths of the opponents. Ooophh!

by just writing "ghotbi knew this and that" doesnt make it real.
what is real is we were GIFTED by a silly, childish mistake of a defender failing to trap the simple ball. NOT through our tactics or ....
and thanks to rahmati who has become ghotbi's guardian angel by saving his arse game after game.
never mind how ghotbi still didnt show he was able to handle the koreans' strength which is their wide plays and flanks.

no. lets just keep repeating things, ... enough number of times, hoping it would turn to reality!


Payman Jaan.........
Every body,including yourself, said opposite of what you are saying now............
You are right, only as far as , one of us, is defenetly keep reapeting to create his own reality, to argue for the sake of argument, and harefe mard yekieh........
I am not just ,trying to to credit Ghotbi, for the TM win....I did prove it !!

Once again, out of respect for you...here is the ......The Korean admition of Ghotbi's work ::
""""
.................................................. .........................................
Korean perspective

Iran loss begging questions over player selection



http://www.footkorean.net/wp-content...200&w=200&zc=1 Sep 15, 2010
Park Ji-sung cut a frustrated figure as he left the pitch at Sangam World Cup stadium on Tuesday night. The national team captain had been battered by an aggressive Iranian midfield and came away with little to show for his effort but for his bruises and the echoes of his complaints to an uninterested referee. Perhaps more disappointing to the Manchester United workhorse was the inefficacy of the Cho Kwang-Rae‘s formation, an attack-minded 3-4-1-2, despite all of the pre-match hype about breathing strategic novelty and elegance into the Korean game. While a similar tactic had worked against a lackluster Nigeria, a compact Iranian side, displaying aggressive pressure and determination, exposed glaring deficiencies in almost all areas of the pitch. While the ramifications of the match were about what you would expect for a friendly, the loss, nonetheless, highlighted some serious areas of concern ahead of the Asian Cup — in particular, Cho’s player selection.
From the infancy of his tenure as national team manager, Cho has made it a point to emphasize the fact that he intends to bring about a transition from the older generation of World Cup 2006 to the younger generation of World Cup 2014. Against Nigeria, Cho sparked a media blitz by calling up several promising youngsters such as Ji Dong-won (Jeonnam Dragons) and Yoon Bitgaram (Gyeongnam FC), a player Cho himself has nurtured at his former club. In defense, Cho picked out towering 21-year old Hong Jeong-ho (Jeju United) and imposing 20-year old Kim Young-kwon (FC Tokyo) as having considerable potential as national team defenders. While some raised speculation as to whether or not the players were experienced enough to merit consideration, Cho remained adamant that it was the right move and a necessary step in making progress towards transition. This time around, however, there was not so much a criticism of the inexperience of some of the youngsters being selected as question marks regarding the players selected and their respective roles within the team. With only Seok Hyeon-joon (Ajax) and Park Ju-young (AS Monaco) called up as forwards, the message was clear that the teamsheet would emphasize the strength and versatility of midfield and that the attack would rest on the potent, fluid triumverate of Park Ji-sung, Lee Chung-yong and Park Ju-young.
However, Cho’s adherence to and self-belief in the 3-4-1-2 formation has consequently hamstringed the current national selection. After the loss againstIran, it became patently obvious that finishing continues to be a persistent problem while lingering questions have been raised over the current selections for positions that have not been challenged for in recent memory, including Lee Young-pyo’s favored left-back slot. TheIranmatch served as an excellent opportunity to blood some of the more inexperienced players in and while defense saw two potential starlets step up, there was a sense that attacking positions could have used an infusion of fresher faces. Case in point, two strikers who have continued their excellent rookie performances in the K-League, Incheon United’s aggressive Yoo Byung-soo and Gangwon FC’s intelligent Kim Young-hoo, were yet again missing in action from Cho’s initial 22-man roster. The former, currently leading the goalscoring charts with Jeonbuk’s Enio Olivieria Junior (“Eninho”), is unlike many national team forwards in that his lack of versatility is also his strongest point — his physical, powerful game is suited towards pure striking, something the incumbent K-League Rookie of the Year has proven to excel at this year (and last) with 13 goals to his name but no assists. The latter literally emerged from the netherworlds of the Korean football leagues, leaving teams in his devastating goalscoring wake, and continued to rampage with an impressive inaugural showing in the K-League with expansion team Gangwon. Goalscoring isn’t Kim Young-hoo’s only talent, however, as last weekend’s hat-trick of assists against a shambolic Jeonbuk defense showed that he’s as crafty a creator as he is an opportunistic fox-in-the-box. For someone who has, until recently, been immersed in the K-League both as a manager and player, it comes as somewhat of a surprise then that Cho Kwang-rae would consciously omit both players from contention in favor of the unproven Seok or the already proven Park. Other players who have impressed like Kim Eun-joong and Ji Dong-won were also nowhere to be seen.


Yoo Byung-soo’s impressive goalscoring ability on display

In midfield, continued and justified criticism of Ki Sung-yong’s listless, uninspired performances continue to harangue both team and player. Although earmarked for having untapped reservoirs of footballing potential, Ki Sung-yong has continually disappointed since his well-publicized move to Glasgow giants Celtic. After manager Tony Mowbray’s tenure was cut short, Ki has found himself at ends with Neil Lennon’s strategic and tactical philosophies as well as the subsequent lack of playing time . Rumors during the summer transfer window of a possible move to former FC Seoul manager Senol Gunes’ Trabzonspor could not have abated the general uneasiness about his playing situation. At the national level, this malaise has manifested as a series of irregular and insipid showings, often an unremarkable shadow of his performances during World Cup qualification and for FC Seoul. Cho’s reluctance to impose an ultimatum on the player via increased competition in midfield means that the national team continues to look effete in midfield play and inconsistent at set-pieces. A clear alternate stands out in the form of Jeju United’s Koo Ja-cheol who has had a wonderful season, leading at the top of the assists column, and leading his perennially underachieving club to the upper echelons of the K-League. Although some fears abounded that the player would not be able to lead the island team into footballing terra incognita, Koo has responded in kind by putting consistent, commanding performances in midfield. Given his youth and abilities, it remains a bit bewildering why the Jeju lynchpin has not had the chance to assert himself for the senior team.
Given the issues exposed by Iran’s high-pressure, relentless approach — namely an over-reliance on an awkward formation and lack of positional depth — it seems reasonable that some new faces with talent be given an opportunity to prove themselves to the national team before the Asian Cup. With only the friendly with Japan remaining in October, Cho Kwang-rae has a last opportunity to test out potential players before the Asian Cup kicks off in January. While his insistence on youth players and commitment to streamline the generational shift in the senior team has been refreshing, the last two friendlies indicate that perhaps more substantive and thoughtful practices are needed in the player selection.
.................................................. ..........................................



.................................................. ..........................................

There were also several video clips associated with the korean article, which showed exactly how Ghotbi's system paralized Koreans,simulteniouse attack of DMs rushing and preventing the Korean defenders,not to distribute the balls,etc,etc........we all saw it...I could not find that for you.....but,I am sure others remember....


And here is everbody's admiration of the game by TM,including yours...just for the reminder :
http://www.persianfootball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89529

There was no Lucky Goal.....there was a superior planning of Ghotbi that Got us the win !

[Doctor DOOM]

^ dont want to derail this thread here, so I'll follow it here:

http://www.persianfootball.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1641077#post1641077

in fact I urge you to read the first post to clarify what I wrote then and what I say now. to me they're very similar.


First half:

Our goal also is not the result of some highly masterful tactics, rather it is a true GIFT from the opponent for failing to pass stronger which fell to Pejman Nouri who had the presence of mind to attack the player. This only proved ghotbi is a very lucky coach … perhaps by becoming a “seyed” recently ;)

[zzgloo]

^ dont want to derail this thread here, so I'll follow it here:

http://www.persianfootball.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1641077#post1641077

in fact I urge you to read the first post to clarify what I wrote then and what I say now. to me they're very similar.

here is the copy of your post, # 7, in the South Korea vs IRAN thread :

Doctor DOOM :
.................................................. ......................................

from what I read here (still havent been able to watch the 2nd half) it seems we took control of the game. is that it?

.................................................. .....................................

And what was your opinion of the Korean article ?..you forgot to mention.
And what was your opinion of ever one els,on the game ?...you forgot that too.......

Did every one here, and the Korean Article mention the Ghobi's winning plan ...or, The Lucky Goal scored by TM ?

[Doctor DOOM]

follow here:
http://www.persianfootball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89529&page=5

[RaginG Inferno]

Goalkeepers: Mehdi Rahmati, Shahab Gordan, Alireza Haghighi

Defenders: Mohammad Hosseini, Khosro Heydari, Jalal Hosseini, Farshid Talebi, Hadi Aghili, Mohammad Nosrati, Hassan Ashjari, Hossein Mahani

Midfielders: Javad Nekounam, Andranik Teymourian, Pejman Nouri, Masoud Shojaei, Mohammad Nouri, Ashkan Dejagah, Gholamreza Rezaei, Mohammad-Reza Khalatbari

Strikers: Milad Meydavoudi, Karim Ansarifard, Mohammad Gholami, Arash Afshin

Standby: Mohammad Mohammadi, Hanif Omranzadeh, Sattar Zare, Hamidreza Aliasgari, Sina Ashouri, Bakhtiar Rahmani, Mehrdad Oladi

I would have included in Sheys Rezaei if he wasn't excluded from his team.
Very nice, I believe Gholami and Afshin are good inclusions, like you. They have shown their quality.

[dvader6]

meydavoudi is out for the next 5 months it seems.
so I think we have only the pick of ;
oladi
gholamin
nowroozi (foolad)
ansarifard
afshin
manouchehri (had a good run tlll the break in the games)