Success with a foreign coach for Team Melli , a myth.

[maij]

The unceremonial exit of Team Melli from the World Cup has been over shadowed by the political events in Iran where the electoral fraud allegation has ignited the streets of major cities. The debates are subdued and the mood quite somber due to these events.

However , the arguments and discussion will heat up as soon as the reality strikes.
Amongst the debates and searches for failure reasons , the majority seem to point the finger at the coaches and lack of European or Foreign coach in Team Melli as the main cause for Iran’s failure to qualify for the World Cup.

This myth is becoming epidemic in the absence of comprehensive inquiry in Iranian failures and an audit of the system that runs Iran’s football policies.

So Far , 4 Asian Teams have qualified for the FIFA World Cup . Australia, Japan, South Korea and North Korea. Apart from Australia, the rest of the teams have local coaches leading them to success. Saudi Arabia, who made the play off , has a foreign coach , but the bulk of the campaign was carried out by the local coach who was replaced at the last hurdle. In North Korea , which never had a foreign coach in its history, where state control is so tight that even mobile phones are not allowed , where none of the players play in a foreign league and no club is allowed to recruit foreigners and no North Korean club ever made any impact in Asian competition , one must asks how did this team make it without a foreign coach ? Something that many Iranian fans think it is a prerequisite for qualifying and success!!.

But North Korea aside, the similarity between Egypt and Iran in football is much more evident. Looking at Egypt , the theory of foreign coach is ridiculed. In South Africa, The Federation Cup is set alight by the gallant Egyptian performance were their tight loss to the Brazilians was soon to be forgotten by a historical defeat of the World Champions Italy. Egypt has proved beyond shadow of doubt that it is a quality team with ambition and standard. All this , by the way , was achieved under a local coach called Hassan Shehateh.

Like Iran , Egypt is a populous nation and has a bipolar football system. They have their own Esteghlal- Perspolis axis in Al Ahli and Zamalek. The Egyptian clubs rule the African club competitions and Egypt is the current defending African Champion at club and country levels. Hoards of Egyptian players play in Europe , some of whom are not even in the national team squad. Egypt last two African Championship was under Shahetah while their clubs , mostly employ national coaches.

NOW, how come countries, such as Egypt and North Korea , and by no means they are the only countries , manage such success without a foreign coach ??

The simple answer is that coaches do not mean everything to a football team , yet they are the easiest targets in case of a failure. The most common dominater and the Weak link.

The problem of Iran’s football is well beyond the coaches. It is deep rooted and spreads across the board of factors including politics and social factors. It is also a fact that Iran is not producing quality players. The passion of the fans and their expectation simply exceeds reality.

[Shojaei88]

we have problems because of the regime
The islamic republic dont let us go to world cup!!!!

NO ORGANISATION

[Kiafan06]

[QUOTE=maij;1376083]

The simple answer is that coaches do not mean everything to a football team , yet they are the easiest targets in case of a failure. The most common dominator and the Weak link.

/QUOTE]

Amazingly on the spot.

The whole article was VERY well-written, i must say.
You should become an editorial writer for PFDC.
Great article.
==================================================
coming back to the part about the coaches not being everything in football.
completely true.
Especially on the national stage. Players should already know the basics of space and movement . the coach, while responsible for sycing the players and flow of the game, cannot control the performance of the players on the field.The main job of a national team coach is the selection of talent to play for the national team, as well as tactics employed. But these two things are not nearly as important as the technical abilities, intelligence, and physical presence of the players on the field.

[Martin-Reza]

There is much more wrong in Iranian football than the national team coach's position, BUT Iranian coaches simply sucks. Noone wants to have them outside Iran and almost every success in Iranian football in international competitions in recent years came under a foreigner.

When you for example look at the coaches who got their team over the group stage of ACL, it's only foreigners plus Daei, an Iranian with much foreign experience and yet not living up to the expectations at TM. The rest is even worse than him, only exception seems to be Ghotbi, who is more a foreign coach than an Iranian.

So although there is much more to fix, a good foreign coach would help TM as well.

[maij]

So although there is much more to fix, a good foreign coach would help TM as well.


Fine ...

NOW , without going to side issues and straight to the point , what knowledge a North Korean coach has that the Iranian cannot learn or acquire ??? (Apart from nuclear technology , that is :D )

[xoraster]

The unceremonial exit of Team Melli from the World Cup has been over shadowed by the political events in Iran where the electoral fraud allegation has ignited the streets of major cities. The debates are subdued and the mood quite somber due to these events.

However , the arguments and discussion will heat up as soon as the reality strikes.
Amongst the debates and searches for failure reasons , the majority seem to point the finger at the coaches and lack of European or Foreign coach in Team Melli as the main cause for Iran’s failure to qualify for the World Cup.

This myth is becoming epidemic in the absence of comprehensive inquiry in Iranian failures and an audit of the system that runs Iran’s football policies.

So Far , 4 Asian Teams have qualified for the FIFA World Cup . Australia, Japan, South Korea and North Korea. Apart from Australia, the rest of the teams have local coaches leading them to success. Saudi Arabia, who made the play off , has a foreign coach , but the bulk of the campaign was carried out by the local coach who was replaced at the last hurdle. In North Korea , which never had a foreign coach in its history, where state control is so tight that even mobile phones are not allowed , where none of the players play in a foreign league and no club is allowed to recruit foreigners and no North Korean club ever made any impact in Asian competition , one must asks how did this team make it without a foreign coach ? Something that many Iranian fans think it is a prerequisite for qualifying and success!!.

But North Korea aside, the similarity between Egypt and Iran in football is much more evident. Looking at Egypt , the theory of foreign coach is ridiculed. In South Africa, The Federation Cup is set alight by the gallant Egyptian performance were their tight loss to the Brazilians was soon to be forgotten by a historical defeat of the World Champions Italy. Egypt has proved beyond shadow of doubt that it is a quality team with ambition and standard. All this , by the way , was achieved under a local coach called Hassan Shehateh.

Like Iran , Egypt is a populous nation and has a bipolar football system. They have their own Esteghlal- Perspolis axis in Al Ahli and Zamalek. The Egyptian clubs rule the African club competitions and Egypt is the current defending African Champion at club and country levels. Hoards of Egyptian players play in Europe , some of whom are not even in the national team squad. Egypt last two African Championship was under Shahetah while their clubs , mostly employ national coaches.

NOW, how come countries, such as Egypt and North Korea , and by no means they are the only countries , manage such success without a foreign coach ??

The simple answer is that coaches do not mean everything to a football team , yet they are the easiest targets in case of a failure. The most common dominater and the Weak link.

The problem of Iran’s football is well beyond the coaches. It is deep rooted and spreads across the board of factors including politics and social factors. It is also a fact that Iran is not producing quality players. The passion of the fans and their expectation simply exceeds reality.


With all due respect, your knowledge of foreign football is limited and thus, you write this post. I will explain why you are wrong.

Most of the other countries you have mentioned have actually developed mainly from the knowledge of big time foreign coaches-
Japan has had the likes of Wenger-Zico, Quiroz
Korea -Hiddink, Advoocat
Saudi Arabian players have ALL been developed by foreign coaches in their clubs and various national teams. Thats is why your post is misleading, Al Johar coached them for a short while, they only got in the running when he left and the new foreign coach came in.

The above mantioned coaches have worked in this countries and have helped to raise the bar.
Where was Japan and Korea before they made apush for better foreign coaches, better league, better organization?

Egypt has had a long tradition of bringing in foreign coaches for their teams (youth teams, clubs etc). Santini Zacheroni were recently approached by Al Zamalek. The bulk of the Egyptian team comes from Al Ahly who has been coached by a great Portuguese coach Jose Manuel (?) who has now left for the Angolan national team. Under Jose, these players developed on a daily bases and have won the african champions league 2-3 years running. Part of the succes from egyptian national team is directly linked to the good job af Al Ahly FC.

Therefore, the local Japanese, Korean and Egyptian coaches\players have worked and learned from some of the best in the business. There are also long terms plans and coaching academies in such countries. Japan has established the most sophisticated coaching academy in Asia (founded by sponsering money from Adidas). Egyptian FA has tried to get closer to Portugal and are actively promoting Portuguese coaches (there are far more foreign coaches in Egypt than in Iran)
Japanese FA brought in Wenger, Quiroz and Zico, not only as coaches but also as advisors.

North Korea is a team where almost everything they have done defies logic by this is a unique case in the world.

Now, look at Iran, where are the academies? Where are the long term plans? From whom should young Iranian coaches lern their trade? A guy like Mansourian, he has now taken over PAS, where is his theoritical knowledge? Where are his teachers? Probably GN.........

Thats is why you cannot compare Iranian coaches to th likes of Japanese, Korea and Egyptian who work in a professional environment, with and against professional coaches with an FA that is behind them and pushes for theoritoical knowledge.

Coaches are not everything but in a country where our players have not learned the basics of footballing ABC (things you learn in your club at a young age) and players who time after time physically break down after 60 minutes (physical fitness comes from the daily work you do in your club), the one has to put the amjor blame on our amatuer coaches and general amatuer club strcture.

[Ab-Gosht]

dpr has many players in other countries, u said none... good article though!

[kaz]

tioned have actually developed mainly from the knowledge of big time foreign coaches-
Japan has had the likes of Wenger-Zico, Quiroz
Korea -Hiddink, Advoocat
Saudi Arabian players have ALL been developed by foreign coaches in their clubs and various national teams. Thats is why your post is misleading, Al Johar coached them for a short while, they only got in the running when he left and the new foreign coach came in.

Repped. Thanks for your post, it saved me a lot of time. All those countries, as Babak says, were developed by foreign coaches. N.Korea is really the exception.

[Martin-Reza]

Fine ...

NOW , without going to side issues and straight to the point , what knowledge a North Korean coach has that the Iranian cannot learn or acquire ??? (Apart from nuclear technology , that is :D )

I don't think the North Korean coach did something outstanding. He implied a reactive counter attacking strategy with deep defending, probably in long national team camps organized to prepare the team.

Also I think the North Koreans are well organized, and strictly following schedules, having discipline, etc., as shown in other disciplines.

I have the feeling Iranian coaches lack some basics of professionalism, beside not having compareable knowledge to European or South American coaches.

[maij]

I don't think the North Korean coach did something outstanding. He implied a reactive counter attacking strategy with deep defending, probably in long national team camps organized to prepare the team.

Also I think the North Koreans are well organized, and strictly following schedules, having discipline, etc., as shown in other disciplines.

Thank you Martin Jan, so , a North Korean coach who can take his Team to the World Cup , has nothing outstanding compared to an Iranian coach. That is my whole point.

Somewhere else in (in Football+s forum) Peyman said that it is not about the passport of the coach it is about his ABILITY. Damn right it is the ability of the coach rather than his nationality that makes a difference.

Some kids over here think that bringing in a white skin will suddenly push Iran to the World Cup , while we have all witnessed (At least the more experienced members and senior members) how chaotic this football is from administration to organization , from clubs to players, from fans misconduct to cheap journalism & media , from poor facilities to corruption ......and the list goes on.

AND , some of them believe that we shall forget all those shortcomings and bring a Brazilian or a Dutch coach , and everything will piece together and fix itself.....because these foreigners have a magic wand that God has not given the Iranians!!!

If my memory serves me right , the last famous European coach did not last more than a few months in a cub....His name was Vengada :rolleyes::rolleyes:





I have the feeling Iranian coaches lack some basics of professionalism, beside not having compareable knowledge to European or South American coaches.

I don't know about that , in fact from what limited contacts I have/had with Iranian coaches , I can safely say they are well informed and tactically shrewd. But then again, I had no contact with European and Foreign coaches (apart from a few here at home) to make a comparative assessment.

But most importantly, I am not a professional coach so my assessment will always be flawed. My argument is lies elsewhere. I don't believe that an Iranian coach has anything inherently or genetically different from any other nationality that prevents him from being as good. BUT, like any professional, he needs education, discipline, experience, the proper environment and last but not least the true desire and ambition to succeed.

[Super Shojaei]

if its a myth then how come we have been so successfull when we have had foriegn coaches??

[maij]

if its a myth then how come we have been so successfull when we have had foriegn coaches??

Depend what successful means to you

Give me your examples.

Iran won all its Asian Championships under Vatani coach
1968 (Bayati)
1972 (Ranjbar)
1976 (Mohajerani)

World Cup Finals
1978 Mohajerani
1998 Talebi
2006 Ivankovic

And Asian games Medals

Year Winners
1951 (http://www.rsssf.com/tablesa/asgames51.html) India Iran Silver (SADEGHIANI)
1966 (http://www.rsssf.com/tablesa/asgames66.html) Burma Iran Silver (SZUCS Gyorgy)
1974 (http://www.rsssf.com/tablesa/asgames74.html) Iran (O'FARRELL)
1990 (http://www.rsssf.com/tablesa/asgames90.html) Iran (PARVIN)
1998 (http://www.rsssf.com/tablesa/asgames98.html) Iran (POURHAIDARI)
2002 (http://www.rsssf.com/tablesa/asgames02.html) Iran (Ivankovic)

[Persianking]

you cant compare Iran before the revolution with the current Iran under this IR.
That doesnt make sense

[maij]

you cant compare Iran before the revolution with the current Iran under this IR.
That doesnt make sense

Where does it say that you you cannot compare this to that ??? I want to save it for future reference.

Anyway , what is your counter argument...you need to provide SOME evidence or proof not just a statement.