Qalenoi Harshly Criticizes Daei

[Ala]

Finally, Boghze Qalenoi Shekast and he started revealing his true role as
the key person behind Daei bashing in the past 4 years.

He accused daei of hurting TM by not retiring.
He claimed that at his time TM was first in Asia and now have dropped.
He criticized Daei's Spain camp saying it was based on bad planning.
He criticized using top players in WAFF.
He accused Daei of decieting people.


قلعه*نويي: توضيح بده، چرا با سايپا يازدهم شدي؟

مي*خواهم بگويم اگر راست مي*گويد خودش هم در يك بازي حساس تيم*ملي از جواد نكونام استفاده نكند تا معلوم شود غيبت يك بازيكن چه تاثيراتي خواهد داشت
---------------------------------------------
ماجراي علي دايي و امير قلعه*نويي از كنفرانس مطبوعاتي بعد از بازي استقلال – پگاه استارت خورد، جايي كه قلعه*نويي در واكنش به غيبت طالب*لو و كاظمي از رفتار سرمربي تيم ملي ايراد گرفت و گفت: «مگر بازي با فلسطين و اردن و تورنمنت غرب آسيا چقدر مهم است كه به*خاطر آن بازي*هاي ليگ را فدا مي*كنيم و بازيكنان اصلي تيم*ها را مي*گيريم؟» او

ادامه داد: «جالب آنكه بازي*هاي سايپا و سپاهان هم تعطيل مي*شود، اين خيلي مشكوك است.»
علي دايي با اين حرف*ها براي بار دوم به امير قلعه*نويي و سياست*هاي او حمله كرد تا شاهد جديدترين بگومگوي مطبوعاتي در عرصه ورزش باشيم. طبيعتا بعد از اين حرف*ها نوبت به قلعه*نويي رسيد تا جواب علي دايي را بدهد.

قلعه*نويي در واكنش به حرف*هاي دايي مي*گويد: «اين *بار دوم است كه دايي از اين حرف*ها مي*زند. بار اول عيد بود كه در يك ويژه*نامه نوروزي راجع به من حرف زده بود كه همان موقع جواب ندادم و گفتم مساله شخصي است و دوست ندارم رسانه*اي شود و هيچي نگفتم، ولي الان درباره استقلال حرف زده و من به*خاطر هواداران ميليوني اين تيم بايد جواب او را بدهم. شنيده*ام ايشان گفته*اند ما به استقلال تعلق نداريم. خب، قبول، ما هم ادعايي نداريم، گرچه 18 سال از عمرم اينجا گذشته، اما چرا خودش كه فقط دو سال است آمده سايپا از آبدارخانه تا هيات*مديره را مال خود كرده؟»

مي*خواهم بگويم اگر راست مي*گويد خودش هم در يك بازي حساس تيم*ملي از جواد نكونام استفاده نكند تا معلوم شود غيبت يك بازيكن چه تاثيراتي خواهد داشت. ما در بازي با پگاه يك بازيكن را به*دليل آسيب*ديدگي و دو نفر را به*خاطر حضور در اردوي تيم*ملي در اختيار نداشتيم كه همين قضيه 30 درصد توان تيمي ما را كاسته بود.»

قلعه*نويي درباره اظهارنظر علي دايي در مورد تيم*ملي و اينكه سال*هاست درجا مي*زند نيز گفت: «او راست مي*گويد، تيم*ملي سال*هاست كه درجا مي*زند، اما اي كاش دلايل درجا زدن تيم*ملي را هم اعلام مي*كرد تا مردم بدانند. من به شما مي*گويم تيم*ملي چرا درجا زده، يكي از دلايل آن همين آقاي دايي بود كه بايد شش، هفت سال پيش فوتبال را كنار مي*گذاشت تا جوان*ها فرصت خودنمايي پيدا كنند اما اين آقا كنار نكشيد تا بزرگترين خيانت را در حق فوتبال ملي كرده باشد.

امير قلعه*نويي كه به شدت از حرف*هاي دايي ناراحت بود گفت: «زماني كه بنده تيم ملي را تحويل دادم اين تيم مقام اول آسيا را داشت و الان كجا هستيم، در كجاي رنكينگ فوتبال آسيا و جهان قرار داريم. بهتر است اين آقا فكر مردم را منحرف نكند.

بزرگترين هنر او درگيري با رسانه*ها و خبرنگاران، بازيكنان و پيشكسوتان فوتبال است كه در كنار آن تماشاگران را هم از تماشاي بازي*هاي ملي فراري داده. طوري كه تيم*ملي در يك بازي سه هزار تماشاگر داشته و در بازي ديگر به 500 نفر رسيده. مي*دانم او از چه ناراحت است، همه ناراحتي او از زماني است كه بنده از تيم*ملي خطش زدم!» قلعه*نويي سپس ادامه مي*دهد: «ايشان بهتر است به جاي حرف زدن در مورد استقلال بيشتر به فكر سايپا باشد. كجاي دنيا ديده*ايد كه سرمربي تيم يازدهم جدول سرمربي تيم*ملي شود؟ سايپايي* كه خود اين آقا بسته بود و تمرينات و بدنسازي آن را از اول تا آخر تحت نظر داشت در ليگ يازدهم شد، چرا درباره اين موضوع، به مردم توضيح نمي*دهد؟»

قلعه*نويي در آخر با اشاره به اردوي 20 روزه تيم*ملي در اسپانيا گفت: «اينجور اردوهاي 20 روزه ديگر در دنيا منسوخ شده است، اما اين آقا از اين مسائل اطلاعي ندارد و تيم را 20 روز به اروپا برد كسي هم نپرسيد با كدام منطق اين كار را انجام مي*دهد و حالا هم باشگاه*هاي ليگ را به*خاطر بازي*هاي غرب آسيا به بازي گرفته است
اين در حالي است كه سال گذشته ما تيم دوم خود را به بازي*هاي غرب آسيا فرستاديم و قهرمان شديم و جالب آنكه تمام بازيكناني كه امروز دايي مدعي است آنها را كشف كرده در بازي*هاي سال گذشته غرب آسيا توسط بنده انتخاب شدند و به مقام قهرماني هم رسيدند!»

[SHAH]

i think this is really unfair to ali daei, he does not deserve this sort of critisim for all the fings he has done for team-e melli.he is an iranian icon!
also ali daei has invited a great bunch of players for the WAFF competition as not all have national team experience and many are very young so i think it will do wonders for their career.
ali daei knows what he is doing so ****ers should stop bashing him and let him get on with HIS job.

[Ilike.ccie]

lol be har doshoon.. chetor be joone ham mioftan!!

[MR.ESTESNAII]

Khar too Khar...lol

[Agha Kasra]

*1 He accused daei of hurting TM by not retiring.
*2 He claimed that at his time TM was first in Asia and now have dropped.
*3 He criticized Daei's Spain camp saying it was based on bad planning.
He criticized using top players in WAFF.
He accused Daei of decieting people.



*1 Correct IMO, he ALWAYS played, the youth didnt get a chance, and everyone had to play in a other position because Mr. Daei wanted to play.

*2 Also correct, we were the first of Asia from November-06 till May-07.

*3 Once again correct, the teams had to go on their camp without their key players and they didn't do jack in the spain camp :rolleyes: How many friendlies did they play? They only ruined the teams preparation for WAFF. Khaste nabashe...


please remember: Ghalenoi Shiirreeh!

[ehsanjd]

Ghalenoi should mind his own freakin' business. He's becoming another Mayeligohan.

[golffan]

GaleNoee is a true A** Hole like Mayeli Gohan

[Amin_]

When a football person/coach is being interviewed and is being asked questions he should either lie, not speak his view or just walk away from the interview.

When he answers the questions it's being seen as "creating hashiyeh", "wishing TM bad" and all that :rolleyes:

Btw, he's right on most of his points!

[Khashayar24]

Always when I read interviews of Mr.Ghalenoei I clearly can see where he comes from!(Chaleh Meydoun)

Even when playing he was overrated and some kind of SOOSOOL player!

I really like Esteghlal and Perspolis because they make a whole nation watching a derby and let them forget all sorrows.

The reason why I write this is to show that I am not against red or blue.

It is a different case if you are always the coach of Esteghlal and have enough good players in your teams roster, than being the coach of Saipa which has not that much good players.

Some could tell now that Mr.G had also a good half season with Mes Kerman which is true but he didnt manage to make this team winning the championship and never will.

He is to say it in persian OGHDEI and thats why he is still insisting that TM's failure to qualify for the next stage was just based on Korea's luck.

I saw every match Iran played under his reign and it was just disastrous,the most quote I like about him is having said no asian country ever won a single point in Seoul in the past 50 years, besides Iran!

Everyone knows that Saudia Arabia beat them twice in 2006.

And not to forget his bad language during the game with Sepahan in 83-84 where he shouted at Sadeghi to stop talking to Seyyed Abbasi because he had left Esteghlal one season ago.

Lets not forget his good arabic knowledge KOEL YOUM instead of kole hom.

It is not becuase he is bashing Ali Daei but because of this people destroying our football and being proud of some leaders from Meydoune Gomrok supporting them.
This people are the illness of our football and they make me sick.

[raminio05]

why is anyone even paying attention to this guy?

[perspolisi]

is GN stupid or just selfish?

if Daei doesn't call up Taleblou from SS, then he has to call up another keeper from another team! So at the end of the day out of the 18 teams, one will be without its 1st goalie.

I bet you GN is pretty happy now with the situation coz at least he has someone to blame the loss on! He's just the same pathetic low class loser that he was 2-3 years ago. Life hasn't taught him anything! Shame...

[perspolisi]

*1 Correct IMO, he ALWAYS played, the youth didnt get a chance, and everyone had to play in a other position because Mr. Daei wanted to play.

*2 Also correct, we were the first of Asia from November-06 till May-07.

*3 Once again correct, the teams had to go on their camp without their key players and they didn't do jack in the spain camp :rolleyes: How many friendlies did they play? They only ruined the teams preparation for WAFF. Khaste nabashe...


please remember: Ghalenoi Shiirreeh!


aaaah come on mate!!! you are Esteghlali or Ghalenoi'i? ;)

the guy says
مي*خواهم بگويم اگر راست مي*گويد خودش هم در يك بازي حساس تيم*ملي از جواد نكونام استفاده نكند تا معلوم شود غيبت يك بازيكن چه تاثيراتي خواهد داشت. ما در بازي با پگاه يك بازيكن را به*دليل آسيب*ديدگي و دو نفر را به*خاطر حضور در اردوي تيم*ملي در اختيار نداشتيم كه همين قضيه 30 درصد توان تيمي ما را كاسته بود.»

he lost 3 players and that was 30% of his team's ability. and since when a game against Pegah is a sensitive game?!

why can't he just be like all other coaches around the world and accept defeat and stop pointing fingers at others? is it THAT hard to grow up?!?!

[Agha Kasra]

aaaah come on mate!!! you are Esteghlali or Ghalenoi'i? ;)

the guy says
مي*خواهم بگويم اگر راست مي*گويد خودش هم در يك بازي حساس تيم*ملي از جواد نكونام استفاده نكند تا معلوم شود غيبت يك بازيكن چه تاثيراتي خواهد داشت. ما در بازي با پگاه يك بازيكن را به*دليل آسيب*ديدگي و دو نفر را به*خاطر حضور در اردوي تيم*ملي در اختيار نداشتيم كه همين قضيه 30 درصد توان تيمي ما را كاسته بود.»

he lost 3 players and that was 30% of his team's ability. and since when a game against Pegah is a sensitive game?!

why can't he just be like all other coaches around the world and accept defeat and stop pointing fingers at others? is it THAT hard to grow up?!?!
Aziz I'm a Esteghlali and i fully support my team but you can not disagree with my points can you?

[Amin_]

Qn is right saying his team's performance decreased because of the missing players (which is logical, as Talebloo and Kazemi are both very important players for us), but it's not right to criticize Daei for calling them up as it's the coach's right to call up whoever he wants.

I don't believe it was really criticizing or creating hashiyeh though, he was just answering the questions and gave one of the rasons of why he thought our team's performance fell down; we shouldn't make sch a big deal out of this (same with Qotbi's "criticism" of Daei).

[Agha Kasra]

^ Wise words of a wise man ;)

[Colonel Boris]

*1 Correct IMO, he ALWAYS played, the youth didnt get a chance, and everyone had to play in a other position because Mr. Daei wanted to play.

*2 Also correct, we were the first of Asia from November-06 till May-07.

*3 Once again correct, the teams had to go on their camp without their key players and they didn't do jack in the spain camp :rolleyes: How many friendlies did they play? They only ruined the teams preparation for WAFF. Khaste nabashe...


please remember: Ghalenoi Shiirreeh!
1 - According to Daie and Branko, the ONLY two people who would know and have commented, it was Branko's choice that Daei would play. If the coach says you play, I would hope that the player would not be so much of a dick to say no. Especially to the national team. People however insisted back then (and some like yourself still do) that it was Daei's choice to play; after Daei said goodbye to the national team, who played? Enayati (aghaye gole league, the person everyone suggested should play instead of Daei)? Khatibi? How did they do??

It really baffles me how people can still insist that it wasn't Branko's choice that Daei should have played, and that Daei wasn't the best choice back then!! [if you are making a comparison]

2 - Daei's record as a headcoach has not been established long enough to make a comparison with GN. Give it a little time to see how they will compare. [again, if you are questioning that]

3 - Are you actually blaming Daei for 3 (arguably 4) friendlies getting cancelled?

[Agha Kasra]

1 - According to Daie and Branko, the ONLY two people who would know and have commented, it was Branko's choice that Daei would play. If the coach says you play, I would hope that the player would not be so much of a dick to say no. Especially to the national team. People however insisted back then (and some like yourself still do) that it was Daei's choice to play; after Daei said goodbye to the national team, who played? Enayati (aghaye gole league, the person everyone suggested should play instead of Daei)? Khatibi? How did they do??

It really baffles me how people can still insist that it wasn't Branko's choice that Daei should have played, and that Daei wasn't the best choice back then!! [if you are making a comparison]

2 - Daei's record as a headcoach has not been established long enough to make a comparison with GN. Give it a little time to see how they will compare. [again, if you are questioning that]

3 - Are you actually blaming Daei for 3 (arguably 4) friendlies getting cancelled?

1 - I'm not saying that Enayati or Khatibi were better, but when Daei retired, we had nobody. That could've been prevented by giving the other strikers a little bit more playing time. I mean is it necessary for a "big" player like Daei to play 90 minutes vs. Libya, couldn't he be subbed of at the 60th minute to give some more playing time to a (at that time) talent like Borhani? I'm just setting an example.

2- Ghalenoi is only saying that we were first in his time. Daei became our headcoach in March. Based on the FIFA ranking we're going downhill, you do the maths.)

3- I'm not blaming Daei for the friendlies that got cancelled, I'm saying the camp was useless...

[amirkarimi2]

*1 Correct IMO, he ALWAYS played, the youth didnt get a chance, and everyone had to play in a other position because Mr. Daei wanted to play.

*2 Also correct, we were the first of Asia from November-06 till May-07.

*3 Once again correct, the teams had to go on their camp without their key players and they didn't do jack in the spain camp :rolleyes: How many friendlies did they play? They only ruined the teams preparation for WAFF. Khaste nabashe...


please remember: Ghalenoi Shiirreeh!
dude hop off GN balls, or spit them out if they're in your mouth. the only thing I agree with is:
1) He accused daei of hurting TM by not retiring.
but
2) Iran fell in the standings b/c of not having a coach. from may-feb!! daei came in on feb. and we're doing fine, give him a year and we'll see where TM stands.
3) As you can see the Spain and Czech camps has done a great deal of help! before these camps Iran barely won a game 1-0 against low ranked arab teams. now we're winning 3-0, 6-1!!! also Ghalenoei keiy az in ghalatha mitoonest bokoneh ke teamo bebareh spain o Czech? GN teamesh raft AC be bad bakhti MALAYSIA zad. so obviously you're biased cuz he's the SS coach. in the future, manteghi tar fekr kon. OH and BTW I love you man dont take it personal ;)

[Siavash]

A latt is a latt is a latt no matter what. So far he blamed Daei, peghah fun, refs and so on for his failure. GN did not learn anything from the past, and I fill sorry for SS to have this latt as head coach. This year SS has some great palyers but the wrong coach. I hope someone realize soon and kick his ass out of COACHING BUSNES. He is bad news for Iranian football.

[Salar]

However little I like GN, everything he says is true, then again, I still blame him for ruining TM, he damaged the foundation.

[OFFSIDE_1]

We lost in the Asian Cup because of this hezbollai moran. Everyone, including Malaysian commentators were wondering why those 2 clowns, KHATIBI and ENAYATI were playing. Any dumb idiot would have known that Kazemian should have been playing instead of those two fools. How many times did we need to see those 2 in offside before this idiot understood that you don't sub Hashemian out before Enayati ... At least Daei threw those 2 out of the lineup.

also, this is the same fool who substitutes in a new goalkeeper right before going to penalties. Daei overstayed his welcome as a player, but for GN to open up his mouth is just absolutely pathetic

[Ala]

why is anyone even paying attention to this guy?


the moron says daei is upset coz he set him aside from TM.
qalenoi is a shame of iranian football, a true ignorant (jahel)



همه ناراحتى اين آقا به خاطر اين است كه بنده از تيم ملى خطش زدم. تا امروز هم اگر پاسخ حرفهاى او را ندادم به خاطر تيم ملى بود،اما احساس مى كنم ديگر نبايد اجازه داد يك نفر افكار مردم را منحرف كند.ايشان بهتر است به جاى حرف زدن در مورد استقلال،فكر سايپا باشد.


he also claims all the players that daei claims to have discovered were
actually his own (Qn) discovery and daei is taking credit for his efforts!



ضمناً تمام بازيكنانى كه امروز دايى مدعى است كه آنها را كشف كرده در بازى هاى غرب آسياى سال گذشته توسط بنده انتخاب شدند و به مقام قهرمانى آن مسابقات هم رسيدند.

[BehzadB]

Esteghlali members, namely, amin, kasra, yashar..etc, get ready for these kinda threads..
ghalenoei, your General (or whatever ;) ), has come back to your team and Daie is TM coach and Ala is here..
:D
have a lot fun..;)

[Colonel Boris]

1 - I'm not saying that Enayati or Khatibi were better, but when Daei retired, we had nobody. That could've been prevented by giving the other strikers a little bit more playing time. I mean is it necessary for a "big" player like Daei to play 90 minutes vs. Libya, couldn't he be subbed of at the 60th minute to give some more playing time to a (at that time) talent like Borhani? I'm just setting an example.

2- Ghalenoi is only saying that we were first in his time. Daei became our headcoach in March. Based on the FIFA ranking we're going downhill, you do the maths.)

3- I'm not blaming Daei for the friendlies that got cancelled, I'm saying the camp was useless...
1 - Again, I agree that others should have been given a chance but Daei wasn't to blame. The coaches decided to play him because of a) their own stupidity and not caring about the long term effects and b) because the media and the fans put so much emphasis on winning friendlies with 4 goals minimum and a coach that loses a friendly because of experiementing with players gets fired!

Effectively, blame the coach, the media or the fans, but blaming Daei seems far-fetched.

2 - Correct me on this but I thought FIFA ranking (other than being useless) were calculated over 8 years. So being first under GN is partially because of the coaches preceding him, and Iran going down under Daei is partially GN's fault! All I know is that under GN or Branko, Iran didn't actually play too well and I frankly don't remember too many goals being scored from open play! The English commentators picked up on this before Iran's first game against Mexico saying that might work in Asia, but there is no way a good team like Mexico would let that happen and I don't remember Iran actually creating too many chances in any of the 3 games!

Again, basically, comparing how the team played under GN and now under Daei, so far I am more impressed by Daei's team.

3 - Agreed, it might have been somewhat useful, but it was supposed to be so much more! But GN is blaming Daei. That's the part I don't get!

PS I might be a Perspolisi, but I have been equally critical of Ghotbi making sly comments at Daei and eyeing the TM coaching position when he should be minding his own business and wishing the best for the national team.

[ehsanjd]

A latt is a latt is a latt no matter what. So far he blamed Daei, peghah fun, refs and so on for his failure. GN did not learn anything from the past, and I fill sorry for SS to have this latt as head coach. This year SS has some great palyers but the wrong coach. I hope someone realize soon and kick his ass out of COACHING BUSNES. He is bad news for Iranian football.

:bow:

[Mr.Click]

GN is the SS version of PP's Mayeli Gohan

same shit, different color...

to hell with them..

Go TM, Go Daei

[Siavash]

Esteghlali members, namely, amin, kasra, yashar..etc, get ready for these kinda threads..
ghalenoei, your General (or whatever ;) ), has come back to your team and Daie is TM coach and Ala is here..
:D
have a lot fun..;)

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[The-Red]

so basically whoever criticizes daei is wrong!!!gn is not in the greatest position to talk about TM, but I don't blame him after seeing what is going on with TM currently. daie says no one owns perspolis and esteghlal but he acts as if he owns tm? so I guess he is immune from any wrongdoing.

[Siavash]

GN should go to Eusbakestan.

[Colonel Boris]

so basically whoever criticizes daei is wrong!!!gn is not in the greatest position to talk about TM, but I don't blame him after seeing what is going on with TM currently. daie says no one owns perspolis and esteghlal but he acts as if he owns tm? so I guess he is immune from any wrongdoing.
Not necessarily; most recently for example, I think you raised the point that Daei wanted a young team for WAFF, but he didn't invite Amraie. That was a valid criticism.

Unfortunately, Daei hasn't been the coach for long enough to have made too many mistakes that can be criticised! Once the qualifying campaign starts and Iran plays against better opposition, we'll start to see where the cracks really are and that is when valid criticism can be made. Blaming Daei for friendlies getting cancelled in Spain is just silly.

[maij]

When a football person/coach is being interviewed and is being asked questions he should either lie, not speak his view or just walk away from the interview.

When he answers the questions it's being seen as "creating hashiyeh", "wishing TM bad" and all that :rolleyes:

Btw, he's right on most of his points!


Ghalenoei is back to his good old tricks.... I really think people like him and Mayeli Kohan should go to a shrink to sort themselves out by getting professional aid.

BTW: He is VERY wrong in all what he said...not a single credible respectable statement. If Ghalenoei depends on two players in a 23 to 30 players squad and blames the loss on the absence of the Goalkeeper and Kazemi , who was not even in Esteghlal last season , then he should take this team to Kish Island and play in the local league there rather than facing the might of Perspolis , Sepahan and the rest. To be honest with such attitude and mentality he should start thinking about retiring from coaching to allow professionals who understand what football is all about to coach Esteghlal.

If he claims that Daei should have left football 7 or 8 years ago , it is obvious that this person has a personal grudge ....the respect I had for Ghalenoei is lost ..... No wonder all the Iranian journalist in Malaysia hated his guts ( not that they like any coach )...I was probably the only one who kept defending him.....in vain, I might add.

[ehsanjd]

...Blaming Daei for friendlies getting cancelled in Spain is just silly.


It's not just silly, it's ridiculous and desperate.

[Keshwardoost]

Hes just jelouse cuz he was cut, and Daei makes succec, so he can kiss the TM post goodbye for atleast nearest 5 years.. Guess he was hoping for Aliabadi to reinstall him :rolleyes:

/btw, dont think hes a bad coach, he was treated unfairly, but this is just bs from him..

[pajamNL]

Ghalenoei is back to his good old tricks.... I really think people like him and Mayeli Kohan should go to a shrink to sort themselves out by getting professional aid.

BTW: He is VERY wrong in all what he said...not a single credible respectable statement. If Ghalenoei depends on two players in a 23 to 30 players squad and blames the loss on the absence of the Goalkeeper and Kazemi , who was not even in Esteghlal last season , then he should take this team to Kish Island and play in the lacla league there rather than facing the might of perpolis , Sepahan and the rest. To be honest with such attitude and mentality he should start thinking about retiring from coaching to allow professionals who understand what football is all about to coach Esteghlal.

If he claims that Daei should have left football 7 or 8 years ago , it is obvious that this person has a personal grudge ....the respect I had for Ghalenoei is lost ..... No wonder all the Iranian journalist in Malaysia hated his guts ( not that they like any coach )...I was probably the only one who kept defending him.....in vain, I might add.

FAN-TAS-TIC post:bow: :bow: :bow:

[Amin_]

Ghalenoei is back to his good old tricks.... I really think people like him and Mayeli Kohan should go to a shrink to sort themselves out by getting professional aid.

BTW: He is VERY wrong in all what he said...not a single credible respectable statement. If Ghalenoei depends on two players in a 23 to 30 players squad and blames the loss on the absence of the Goalkeeper and Kazemi , who was not even in Esteghlal last season , then he should take this team to Kish Island and play in the local league there rather than facing the might of Perspolis , Sepahan and the rest. To be honest with such attitude and mentality he should start thinking about retiring from coaching to allow professionals who understand what football is all about to coach Esteghlal.

If he claims that Daei should have left football 7 or 8 years ago , it is obvious that this person has a personal grudge ....the respect I had for Ghalenoei is lost ..... No wonder all the Iranian journalist in Malaysia hated his guts ( not that they like any coach )...I was probably the only one who kept defending him.....in vain, I might add.

From this thread:

Qn is right saying his team's performance decreased because of the missing players (which is logical, as Talebloo and Kazemi are both very important players for us), but it's not right to criticize Daei for calling them up as it's the coach's right to call up whoever he wants.

I don't believe it was really criticizing or creating hashiyeh though, he was just answering the questions and gave one of the rasons of why he thought our team's performance fell down; we shouldn't make sch a big deal out of this (same with Qotbi's "criticism" of Daei).

[YOUSIF AHMED]

is GN stupid or just selfish?


both

[Ali]

lol iran's ranking dropped? who was the 43@#!@4 who was our coach at the asian cup when we had probably the strongest team but no formation, stupid positions, and shit players playing? I am not a full daei supporter but Ghalemorghi should be the last person to have any say after what he did to TM. and i aboslutely HATE it when Esteghlalis kiss this losers' ass and cant admit how shit he was and how he destroyed TM and its reputation.

[Ali]

oh and in my years of watching football i have never seen a professional coach blame his team's loss to players being at their national teams.

[Ali Chicago]

Ghalenoei is back to his good old tricks.... I really think people like him and Mayeli Kohan should go to a shrink to sort themselves out by getting professional aid.

BTW: He is VERY wrong in all what he said...not a single credible respectable statement. If Ghalenoei depends on two players in a 23 to 30 players squad and blames the loss on the absence of the Goalkeeper and Kazemi , who was not even in Esteghlal last season , then he should take this team to Kish Island and play in the local league there rather than facing the might of Perspolis , Sepahan and the rest. To be honest with such attitude and mentality he should start thinking about retiring from coaching to allow professionals who understand what football is all about to coach Esteghlal.

If he claims that Daei should have left football 7 or 8 years ago , it is obvious that this person has a personal grudge ....the respect I had for Ghalenoei is lost ..... No wonder all the Iranian journalist in Malaysia hated his guts ( not that they like any coach )...I was probably the only one who kept defending him.....in vain, I might add.


While, I agree that GN comment about complainig about loss of his players and its impact on the loss wasn't professional, I am amazed at what I see as a bias you have toward Mr. Daie. I wish you had the same standards for judging Mr. Daie when you judge every body else (i.e GN, Ghotbi, etc. etc.).

I see a lot of similarities in behavior between both Mayeli, GN and Daie (as far as seeing every criticisem as if it is a personal thing against them personally, sticking to certian players despite the uproar of fans and media toward that player, etc. etc.).

[kaz]

Qn is right saying his team's performance decreased because of the missing players (which is logical, as Talebloo and Kazemi are both very important players for us), but it's not right to criticize Daei for calling them up as it's the coach's right to call up whoever he wants.
I don't believe it was really criticizing or creating hashiyeh though, he was just answering the questions and gave one of the rasons of why he thought our team's performance fell down; we shouldn't make sch a big deal out of this (same with Qotbi's "criticism" of Daei).

Wrong. Daei has no right to call up the players he wants and then have the federation postpone some games for Sepahan and Saipa and make the other teams play.

Nowhere in the world can such a thing happen. In fact, this is what the whole thing is really about. Daei has given Saipa the advantage of postponing their game, the same with Sepahan, whilst taking key Esteghlal players away and having them play without them.

[kaz]

Esteghlali members, namely, amin, kasra, yashar..etc, get ready for these kinda threads..
ghalenoei, your General (or whatever ;) ), has come back to your team and Daie is TM coach and Ala is here..
:D
have a lot fun..;)

LOL, looks like it.


GN should go to Eusbakestan.

You must still be in 'love' with Daei.

[kaz]

Ghalenoei is back to his good old tricks.... I really think people like him and Mayeli Kohan should go to a shrink to sort themselves out by getting professional aid.

BTW: He is VERY wrong in all what he said...not a single credible respectable statement. If Ghalenoei depends on two players in a 23 to 30 players squad and blames the loss on the absence of the Goalkeeper and Kazemi , who was not even in Esteghlal last season , then he should take this team to Kish Island and play in the local league there rather than facing the might of Perspolis , Sepahan and the rest. To be honest with such attitude and mentality he should start thinking about retiring from coaching to allow professionals who understand what football is all about to coach Esteghlal.

If he claims that Daei should have left football 7 or 8 years ago , it is obvious that this person has a personal grudge ....the respect I had for Ghalenoei is lost ..... No wonder all the Iranian journalist in Malaysia hated his guts ( not that they like any coach )...I was probably the only one who kept defending him.....in vain, I might add.

Whether GN thinks 2-3 players are 30% of his team or 50% of his team is nobodies business but himself. Indeed, if he formulates in such methods then you have little reason to doubt him, he is arguably the best domestic coach of the past 5 seasons.

Indeed, the contention is irrelevant. His statements are correct. Whether he could have said it in a more impartial manner like Ghotbi is a different case. We know full well how/who GN is.

I wonder why so many of the Daei fans do not create these threads when the same shameless Daei goes on national TV and insults Ghotbi? What about when Daei insulted GN and said that Esteghlal is Hejazi's team?

We Iranians, we definitely have our own standards for everything.

[zzgloo]

Ghalenoee did not start the personal attacks............Daei did !!
And, that is a " KEY " argument,in judgeing the situation !

GN, had just said, TM had taken his players unneccessarly !
If Daei is a coach of TM,and reguires respect , ...So was Ghalenoee !
If Daei starts saying Esteghlal is not a good team, and Ghalenoee is no body in Esteghalal........
......Ghalenoee can, and should do the same....


Daei, is useing TM status,to settle old scores with every body !!!! ( Before , even achiveing anything ! )
Indeed, as GN says : where in the world the coach of 11 th ranked team in the league becomes the National head coach ?
whom after that,starting to critisize other coaches !
Indeed, Daei, has damaged the TM, in a same way, he himself was dealt with. !!
He says...it is not names that matters, but he stayed with TM for so long.......
he says, it is for playing good....but he does not invite Madanchi, or Bagheri,....etc..
Daei, indeed, had to settle the score with Ghalenoee, for cutting him off from TM during his TM coaching period.

.....................

Attacking,personaly, is wrong..............but, ............. He who lives by the sword...shall die by the sword !

[MR.ESTESNAII]

I want to see a Chaghooo Keshi in downtown Tehran between them...like old school movies...:O)......when does SS play Saipa cause thats going to be a good one.....IF Daei wants to prove anything he needs to just show everyone on the field now....his reputation is on the line....if we lose with more then two goals to Saudi's his head will be cut off by GN himself...:O)

[Ala]

We need to deport this man back to Qaleh-ye Now, a village in the suburbs of
Harat in Afghanestan and close to Darreh-ye Bum, where he came from.

http://i35.tinypic.com/2cqegr7.gif
.

[kaz]

We need to deport this man back to Qaleh-ye Now, a village in the suburbs of
Harat in Afghanestan and close to Darreh-ye Bum, where he came from.
http://i35.tinypic.com/2cqegr7.gif
.

As long as you stay there with him. I think Esteghlalis on this board could live with that.

[The-Red]

It's very simple guys...it's a power struggle...too football ma har rooz yeki ghodrato be dast migireh va zoor migheh,,,it was mayeli's time in the past to do thing his way and no one could touch him because he had the backing of the regime at the time,,,GN had his time as well, even if short, and now it's Daie's time to do what he wants and of course no one can question him. That's just the cycle of things; Daie's time will be over as well and some other egoistic idiot will take over...just hope when Daie's time expires, he has some respect left unlike some other ones in the past.

[perspolisi]

The basis and starting point of the argument is this:

GN is angry that Daei invited 2 players to a TM Game!

Simply because he has nothing else to blame for the loss, and GOD FORBID if he takes responsibility for a defeat ONCE in his life!

That is stupid and wrong. Period! Why are you Esteghlali's even defending this? It doesn't matter what the aftermath and the hashieh bazi are. Even with Taleblou in the goal, that header would have had still gone in, no doubt! And it's not Daei's fault that SS doesn't have a proper forward who can't score. ;)

[BehzadB]

Don't worry yourselves too much with this ...

Worse come to worse, Ali Abadi (who hired both of these guys for TM) will call both his boys and tell them to stop it...

and they will....

[perspolisi]

Wrong. Daei has no right to call up the players he wants and then have the federation postpone some games for Sepahan and Saipa and make the other teams play.

Nowhere in the world can such a thing happen. In fact, this is what the whole thing is really about. Daei has given Saipa the advantage of postponing their game, the same with Sepahan, whilst taking key Esteghlal players away and having them play without them.

There are rules set in stone for these situations! Teams who have 5 players invited to TM can request for their games to be postponed.

What does that have to do with Daei "having" the federation postpone games?!?!

And it's the same story everywhere around the world actually! The only difference is, in advanced leagues, planning is done to avoid such situations.

Finally, postponing a game is never an advantage! Players could lose form and it could actually work to their dis-advantage :)

SS players before going to the camp, need to get permission from their coach. If GN was so eager on keeping them he could have had requested them to stay. He didn't obviously and is now crying like a 2 year old... story of his life!

[kaz]

The basis and starting point of the argument is this:

GN is angry that Daei invited 2 players to a TM Game!

Simply because he has nothing else to blame for the loss, and GOD FORBID if he takes responsibility for a defeat ONCE in his life!

That is stupid and wrong. Period! Why are you Esteghlali's even defending this? It doesn't matter what the aftermath and the hashieh bazi are. Even with Taleblou in the goal, that header would have had still gone in, no doubt! And it's not Daei's fault that SS doesn't have a proper forward who can't score. ;)

GN has every right to complain. Esteghlal was without 2 key players and was forced to play. Sepahan who was missing 3 key players got their match postponed. Why should such a thing occur? Ridiculous.

[The-Red]

^^^and all these cancelations were so that we play Palestine and qatar's B team :o

[Siavash]

I wounder if some of us have any national pride. Its ok to criticise Daei and TM for any shortcoming, but to do it blinedly (no matter what), its total ignorance.

[kaz]

I wounder if some of us have any national pride.

Trying to shamefully draw on people's patriotism. The refuge-argument of a coward.

A tournament that nobody sent their best team, which is usually used just to test youth had to occur in the middle of the league?

If that tournament was such a big deal why not postpone the league altogether? Why disadvantage some teams and give advantage to others? Could it be because one of the teams that was advantaged was a team that Daei himself had an admin seat in? Conflict of interest, remember?

Even Ghotbi came and said what they did to Esteghlal was wrong.

[Ali Chicago]

I would like to request from all members despite all the historical facts to not get into who did what first? In the bigger scheme of things it doesn't matter.

Right now, Daie is the head coach and despite having reservations we need to give him our support and all the tools in order for him to succeed. Daie as the head coach of the TM right now does't need to get involved in any side shows, unless he himself is looking for one.

Are there biases in favor or against another team, I am sure there is, in favor of X or Y team, but hey that is life. Life isn't perfect. GN, SS, PP or any other team need to suck it up and accept the fact and in the interest of national interest of TM, need to not create any side shows or confrontation for the TM.

SS and PP as teams that will be representing Iran in Asia need to be able to deal with lack of availability of 1-3 players.

In this specific case, I don't think Kazemi was such a key players for SS and Namdari played ok, it wasn't like Namdari was the reason SS lost.

I wish GN act more professionally, for that matter all of our coaches need to act more professionally.

One thing, I need to bring to PFDC members attention is the fact that famous guys like GN and Daie and Karimi and X and Y have an army of people around them that constantly bring news to them and at times represent it to them in a much more exaggerated ways. I first hand witnessed this when I was in SS camp in Turkey. We were drinking tea with GN and SS coaching staff and one guy came and brough whole bunch of news with a certain bias in order to get GN's attention. I saw GN's reaction and I wish he was more mature in his reaction. I tried in an indirect way to point out to Mr. GN that the news might be just figmentation of the some reporter or not being reported accurately to him, but I didn't have any influence on him after all.

Daie's performance in WC 2010 qualifications will be the yard stick. If our team get through (which it should) considering the first two teams will directly get through and third team will play a playoff against the third team from the other group and winner plays against New Zeland, Daie got the job done. If our team doesn't go through (God Forbid), Mr. Daie need to resign.

[ehsanjd]

SS players before going to the camp, need to get permission from their coach. If GN was so eager on keeping them he could have had requested them to stay. He didn't obviously and is now crying like a 2 year old... story of his life!

:bow:

Ghalenoi is not man enough to ever admit his shortcomings...he's the kind of guy who has to cry and blame "earth and time" (zamin o zamoon) whenever his team messes up. It's pathetic.

[peshkelbi]

Edited

[zzgloo]

GH was wrong to Blame absence of two players for his teams loss.

And, Daei was wrong to attack GH personaly,and saying he is nobody in Esteghlal.

And GH was right to attack him back,and defend....

[Ali Chicago]

I wounder if some of us have any national pride. Its ok to criticise Daei and TM for any shortcoming, but to do it blinedly (no matter what), its total ignorance.

We all are Iranians and love our country, we have disagreements and can be wrong at one time or another, but I don't dare to doubt about patriotisem of any of the PFDC members. I have huge disagreements with Ala and his choices but never dare to accuse him or any one for that matter of not having national pride.

I humbly request, we tone down on rhethorics. We can agree to disagree at best and not accusing each others, My comment was to both sides Agha Siavash and not aimed at you in particular. It is just I used your quote.

At the end all of us are fans and can't do anything to make a difference in the outcomoe of the games for our natioanl team (it will be dependent on the coaching staff and players and a bit of luck at times) to win a game.

All we can do is to support our TM and it doesn't mean we have to agree with everything our coaching staff do. We can express our displeasure or disagreement but at the end of the day (game day) we need to support our team.

[Ali Chicago]

GH was wrong to Blame absence of two players for his teams loss.
And, Daei was wrong to attack GH personaly,and saying he is nobody in Esteghlal.
And GH was right to attack him back,and defend....

I think Mr. GN shouldn't have get into this and respond to Mr. Daie's comments or to raise the issue of SS players in the first place. It is no secret the ill feeling between the two. Right now TM is above Mr. Daie, GN disagreement or old unsettled accounts.

At times if one doesn't answer or retaliate, it doesn't indicated his/her weakness.

[zzgloo]

I would like to request from all members despite all the historical facts to not get into who did what first? In the bigger scheme of things it doesn't matter.
Right now, Daie is the head coach and despite having reservations we need to give him our support and all the tools in order for him to succeed. Daie as the head coach of the TM right now does't need to get involved in any side shows, unless he himself is looking for one.
Are there biases in favor or against another team, I am sure there is, in favor of X or Y team, but hey that is life. Life isn't perfect. GN, SS, PP or any other team need to suck it up and accept the fact and in the interest of national interest of TM, need to not create any side shows or confrontation for the TM.
SS and PP as teams that will be representing Iran in Asia need to be able to deal with lack of availability of 1-3 players.
In this specific case, I don't think Kazemi was such a key players for SS and Namdari played ok, it wasn't like Namdari was the reason SS lost.
I wish GN act more professionally, for that matter all of our coaches need to act more professionally.
One thing, I need to bring to PFDC members attention is the fact that famous guys like GN and Daie and Karimi and X and Y have an army of people around them that constantly bring news to them and at times represent it to them in a much more exaggerated ways. I first hand witnessed this when I was in SS camp in Turkey. We were drinking tea with GN and SS coaching staff and one guy came and brough whole bunch of news with a certain bias in order to get GN's attention. I saw GN's reaction and I wish he was more mature in his reaction. I tried in an indirect way to point out to Mr. GN that the news might be just figmentation of the some reporter or not being reported accurately to him, but I didn't have any influence on him after all.
Daie's performance in WC 2010 qualifications will be the yard stick. If our team get through (which it should) considering the first two teams will directly get through and third team will play a playoff against the third team from the other group and winner plays against New Zeland, Daie got the job done. If our team doesn't go through (God Forbid), Mr. Daie need to resign.

Ali jaan.............
What should have GN done.....when Daie said, GN is nobody in Esteghlal ? after GN only had compliant about unneccessary player invitations of TM players ?

[zzgloo]

I think Mr. GN shouldn't have get into this and respond to Mr. Daie's comments or to raise the issue of SS players in the first place. It is no secret the ill feeling between the two. Right now TM is above Mr. Daie, GN disagreement or old unsettled accounts.
At times if one doesn't answer or retaliate, it doesn't indicated his/her weakness.

They asked, GH, why Esteghal lost...and he answered...because of not haveing his key players ....for an unimportant TM game.....

Wrong ot right......there is no disrespect to the TM head coach,in the above statement...is there ?

But, " GN is nobody is Esteghlal " is a blunt disrespect !

And,I disagree,that GN should have controled himself.......as, I believe....Daei, is just too 'Macho ', and like " Khameneee " is " DRUNK " with his new found powers !

[Ali Chicago]

Ali jaan.............
What should have GN done.....when Daie said, GN is nobody in Esteghlal ? after GN only had compliant about unneccessary player invitations of TM players ?

Funny I have to write this, while being accused by Ala and others of being GN's persar khaleh or supporter and vengful toward Mr. Daie. But my two cents.

First of all, GN isn't the head coach of the TM right now and shouldn't comment about invitation or lack of invitation of the TM players. That is Daie's job IMHO in the first place.

Secondly, even if Mr. Daie said something like that, GN should realize at times Silence is the best answer for the TM sake.

As I read in my other post:
At times if one doesn't answer or retaliate, it doesn't indicated his/her weakness.

This would have been the same attitude that I would expect when GN was the coach and if Ghotbi becomes the head coach. That is why I was so critical of Ala (former Perspolis) during the GN head coaching era with his behavior. I think we have a quote from Hazrate Ali that goes something like this:

"Judge the man by his words, not the words by the man who says it".
Hope you get my drift.

[zzgloo]

Funny I have to write this, while being accused by Ala and others of being GN's persar khaleh or supporter and vengful toward Mr. Daie. But my two cents.
First of all, GN isn't the head coach of the TM right now and shouldn't comment about invitation or lack of invitation of the TM players. That is Daie's job IMHO in the first place.
Secondly, even if Mr. Daie said something like that, GN should realize at times Silence is the best answer for the TM sake.
As I read in my other post:
At times if one doesn't answer or retaliate, it doesn't indicated his/her weakness.
This would have been the same attitude that I would expect when GN was the coach and if Ghotbi becomes the head coach. That is why I was so critical of Ala (former Perspolis) during the GN head coaching era with his behavior. I think we have a quote from Hazrate Ali that goes something like this:
"Judge the man by his words, not the words by the man who says it".
Hope you get my drift.


Ali jaan....we both know...that " Turn the other cheak " phylosophy..does not belong to our culture....and it is not how things work in IRAN !

Somebody , should say something to Daei...as he is getting more arrogant everyday.....before even achiveing anything .......
After, shrugging off, ahmadinejad, and IFF,and Khomaini's grand son, and karimi, etc.........he is becomeing very much like " Khameneie ",and starting to believe unnatural abilities......
As power, corrupts.... Daei, with his " AZARI " machoism,getting drunk with his new found powers.

[Ali Chicago]

Ali jaan....we both know...that " Turn the other cheak " phylosophy..does not belong to our culture....and it is not how things work in IRAN !
Somebody , should say something to Daei...as he is getting more arrogant everyday.....before even achiveing anything .......
After, shrugging off, ahmadinejad, and IFF,and Khomaini's grand son, and karimi, etc.........he is becomeing very much like " Khameneie ",and starting to believe unnatural abilities......
As power, corrupts.... Daei, with his " AZARI " machoism,getting drunk with his new found powers.

Bahram Jaan;

I am surprised you say that. Let' see, Wasn't Kouroosh that freed the Jews and signed the first Human right Charter? Don't we have Hafez and Rumi? Even in old days of Persian empire, Iran never used Slavery to the level the Greeks and Romans used.

Ok we have Nader shah and Khomaini and tourteres in Evin as well, and at times (relatively less) invaded other countries but overall comapare to the so called civilized westerners, we practiced turn the other cheek much more often.

It is not about Daie, it is about TM IMO.
Remember the story of the boy who rediculed Saddi in the Golestan and Saddie gave him money, everybody was surprised and asked Saddie why you gave him money, Saddie said "poole khoonesh roo dadam". !!!!!

[Siavash]

Trying to shamefully draw on people's patriotism. The refuge-argument of a coward.

A tournament that nobody sent their best team, which is usually used just to test youth had to occur in the middle of the league?

If that tournament was such a big deal why not postpone the league altogether? Why disadvantage some teams and give advantage to others? Could it be because one of the teams that was advantaged was a team that Daei himself had an admin seat in? Conflict of interest, remember?

Even Ghotbi came and said what they did to Esteghlal was wrong.

lol... You just exposed yourself, feel sorry for your kind.

[zzgloo]

Bahram Jaan;
I am surprised you say that. Let' see, Wasn't Kouroosh that freed the Jews and signed the first Human right Charter? Don't we have Hafez and Rumi? Even in old days of Persian empire, Iran never used Slavery to the level the Greeks and Romans used.
Ok we have Nader shah and Khomaini and tourteres in Evin as well, and at times (relatively less) invaded other countries but overall comapare to the so called civilized westerners, we practiced turn the other cheek much more often.
It is not about Daie, it is about TM IMO.
Remember the story of the boy who rediculed Saddi in the Golestan and Saddie gave him money, everybody was surprised and asked Saddie why you gave him money, Saddie said "poole khoonesh roo dadam". !!!!!
Ali jaan......Excelent points...as you always look at the profound version of most issues.......
There is two distinct issues here..which you brought up......( Our cultural history )and ( TM,Ali daei issue )..

Culturaly...ali jaan......no one realy know who we ( Iranians ) realy are ....
as we are some where in trianglular dilema between " Mohammad ", " Koorush ",and " Tasavof " !!!!!!!!!!!!
And we are some where is between, with a little touch of Economicly imposed charactoristics......
But, what ever,we should be ,....one thing is for sure...and that , islamic republic has brought up the worst in us.and we , historicaly, at our least civilized and cultured mode !
..................................
as far as, the situation with TM & Ali Daei...................You are right as the head coach of TM reguires a certain respect....and you are also right, as we should let him to have, nothing to blame !!...... Although, I doubt that ,Ali Daei, could intimidate, experinced coaches,with accumplishements, as easyly as he does new young players in TM, with his Macho attitude !

[maij]

Whether GN thinks 2-3 players are 30% of his team or 50% of his team is nobodies business but himself. Indeed, if he formulates in such methods then you have little reason to doubt him, he is arguably the best domestic coach of the past 5 seasons.


Whether Daei wants to select 1 player or 7 from Esteghlal is none of your business, it is Daei's business..... So , what kind of line of argument is this ?

GN has been TM coach and I don't recall anyone has told him or dictated t him how may players from each team he selects.



Indeed, the contention is irrelevant. His statements are correct. Whether he could have said it in a more impartial manner like Ghotbi is a different case. We know full well how/who GN is.

I wonder why so many of the Daei fans do not create these threads when the same shameless Daei goes on national TV and insults Ghotbi? What about when Daei insulted GN and said that Esteghlal is Hejazi's team?

We Iranians, we definitely have our own standards for everything.

YES , certainly so... theses Daei Bashers have certainly set a standard that only a professional psychiatric can decipher and cure.

Give me a break..... Put some creditable content in your arguments rather hiding under the cover of pro and anti Daei.

[xoraster]

Trying to shamefully draw on people's patriotism. The refuge-argument of a coward.

A tournament that nobody sent their best team, which is usually used just to test youth had to occur in the middle of the league?

If that tournament was such a big deal why not postpone the league altogether? Why disadvantage some teams and give advantage to others? Could it be because one of the teams that was advantaged was a team that Daei himself had an admin seat in? Conflict of interest, remember?

Even Ghotbi came and said what they did to Esteghlal was wrong.

It seems that your lies were exposed at ISP and you are back here.

When did Ghotbi say that what Daei did to Esteghlal was wrong? In fact, when has Ghotbi eve commmented on other teams business, specially Esteghlal?

Its the same story, you get backed into a corner and start lying to save face.

[Masoud_A]

Ghalenoee did not start the personal attacks............Daei did !!
And, that is a " KEY " argument,in judgeing the situation !

GN, had just said, TM had taken his players unneccessarly !
If Daei is a coach of TM,and reguires respect , ...So was Ghalenoee !
If Daei starts saying Esteghlal is not a good team, and Ghalenoee is no body in Esteghalal........
......Ghalenoee can, and should do the same....


Daei, is useing TM status,to settle old scores with every body !!!! ( Before , even achiveing anything ! )
Indeed, as GN says : where in the world the coach of 11 th ranked team in the league becomes the National head coach ?
whom after that,starting to critisize other coaches !
Indeed, Daei, has damaged the TM, in a same way, he himself was dealt with. !!
He says...it is not names that matters, but he stayed with TM for so long.......
he says, it is for playing good....but he does not invite Madanchi, or Bagheri,....etc..
Daei, indeed, had to settle the score with Ghalenoee, for cutting him off from TM during his TM coaching period.

.....................

Attacking,personaly, is wrong..............but, ............. He who lives by the sword...shall die by the sword !
I didnt want to post in this thread as alot of people mentioned the facts I wanted to express, but I have to add that GN started the attacks by blaming Daei after his loss against Pegah.

[maij]

While, I agree that GN comment about complainig about loss of his players and its impact on the loss wasn't professional, I am amazed at what I see as a bias you have toward Mr. Daie. I wish you had the same standards for judging Mr. Daie when you judge every body else (i.e GN, Ghotbi, etc. etc.).

I see a lot of similarities in behavior between both Mayeli, GN and Daie (as far as seeing every criticisem as if it is a personal thing against them personally, sticking to certian players despite the uproar of fans and media toward that player, etc. etc.).


Ali Jan…
If you want to argue your point of view, then stick to your points and provide evidence or contents without going into personal matters. It is nobody’s business whom I like or whom I hate and I am not going to justify my passion for something or somebody.

As much as I don’t force you to like Daei , or I go into psychological profiling of someone just because I don’t like his views, please refrain from keeping the same old line of my bias towards Daei. This is only a figment of your own imagination and I am not going to entertain such argument anymore….As much as you have passion towards GN or some others have for Ghotbi , I will keep mine as well. What gives you the right to support someone while conveniently denying it for others? If there are arguments for or against then stick to those points.

It does not take an Einstein to see that there are quite a few Daei haters in this forum and to be honest , I don’t give a hoot about such attitude , but I will not stand idle and will defend him when there is a case , and even criticizing him if I think there is a case for criticism. There are many who have shown their discontent about Daei’s actions or statements which is quite understandable as they are obviously airing their point of views, but for those who consistently bash Daei whenever he scratches his head, except some reaction and argument.

[zzgloo]

I didnt want to post in this thread as alot of people mentioned the facts I wanted to express, but I have to add that GN started the attacks by blaming Daei after his loss against Pegah.
There was no personal attack in saying " Ali Daei, for unneccessary reasons,had invited our key players ", which in west asian games were no so vital....and we see, any teams could have beaten palestian and qatar.....
Where do you see , this " personal attack " ?

But, calling GN, nobody in Esteghlal, is an attack !

[Ali Chicago]

Ali Jan…
If you want to argue your point of view, then stick to your points and provide evidence or contents without going into personal matters. It is nobody’s business whom I like or whom I hate and I am not going to justify my passion for something or somebody.

As much as I don’t force you to like Daei , or I go into psychological profiling of someone just because I don’t like his views, please refrain from keeping the same old line of my bias towards Daei. This is only a figment of your own imagination and I am not going to entertain such argument anymore….As much as you have passion towards GN or some others have for Ghotbi , I will keep mine as well. What gives you the right to support someone while conveniently denying it for others? If there are arguments for or against then stick to those points.

It does not take an Einstein to see that there are quite a few Daei haters in this forum and to be honest , I don’t give a hoot about such attitude , but I will not stand idle and will defend him when there is a case , and even criticizing him if I think there is a case for criticism. There are many who have shown their discontent about Daei’s actions or statements which is quite understandable as they are obviously airing their point of views, but for those who consistently bash Daei whenever he scratches his head, except some reaction and argument.

If your whole basis for something is passion, it is a different story. I was trying to bring in logic here. Regardless of how passionate or not I am about certain things there is a reality. Water boils at 100 degrees Fahrenheit, regardless of I like it or not.

There is a certain code of behavior for a professional coach, regardless of I like that coach or not. See my posts in this thread and despite my overall positive view about GN, I have no fear to come and say this comment of Mr. GN wasn't right in my point of view.

Your post really puzzles me. In my age and your age, hopefully we have learned enough to not just go by blind Passion. I was merely asking for consistency in applying the principal. I don't have any personal passion toward GN or X or Y. . I judge them with my imperfect understanding as I see it. See my last 5 posts where I criticize GN's comments in this specific incident. So there is no US against them mentality. I defend GN or X or Y based on his actions. Some of his actions deserves support in my (granted imperfect) understanding and some doesn't.

Forget about so called "Daie haters as you label them" for a second. If Armin or Kaz or BehzadB criticize Daie's certain action, do they have a pedar ***hteghi with Daie? Can you tell me in your view, everything Mr. Daie has done is perfect? What happened to critical thinking? Don't forget we all are Iranians and see things in our own way which can be wrong. Nobody has pedar ***hteghi with Mr. Daie. I am sure your heard the story by Molavi, how bunch of people who hasn't seen an Elephant, were blindfolded and placed on the side and front and back of the elephant and were told to touch the elephant and based on their touch say what an Elephant is? One who touched the tusk said it is hard piece of wood? Other one said is a soft cylindrical shape (was touching the leg). This is an example of how imperfect our understanding of the reality and truth is (myself included). Even Carl Popper American philosopher says the same thing, our understanding is imperfect and each of us get part of the truth. Our best hope is to exchange our imperfect understanding of the truth through dialog in a never ending quest to get closer (mind you get closer not full comprehension) of truth.

Ala is a perfect example of GN's personal enemy even. But even existence of people like him, doesn't make me to give a white check of unconditionally support to Mr. GN or X or Y.

I never thought I am profiling or anything, I simply requested consistency. To me respecting the TM head coach doesn't mean treating him as a sacred man that can do no wrong. And with all the due respect, it seems (at least in practice is what you are doing).

No pun intended agha maij and dar masal monaghesh nist, but as the quote says in English " the road to hell is paved with good intentions". I am not trying to compare X or Y to hell, I merely am saying, it is not our intentions, it is what we do at times (unconsciously) that matters.

I read your posts and with my granted imperfect understanding, what I see is double standard in your posts. I can be wrong and been wrong before and said this as a friend. To many other people I wouldn't have said this, since I saw their logic and my personal expectation from them (right or wrong) was different. I (as a virtual friend) saw something and tried to communicate with you. That was all. It seems I was wrong.

[kapenak]

qalenoi needs to shut up.
he criticized branko... now he criticizes daei
and criticism is good, but its just that he HAD THE CHANCE TO MAKE A CHANGE and he didn't do crap. he went nowhere with a very good team melli, so he just needs to shut up.

[Siavash]

As I said before, GN is unable to handle a bunch of very good players:nono: . GN did not deserve to be TM coach:bow: ,the idiot does not deserve to be SS coach too. He is a shame to our football.
A lott is a lott is a lott no matter what

[Siavash]

I didnt want to post in this thread as alot of people mentioned the facts I wanted to express, but I have to add that GN started the attacks by blaming Daei after his loss against Pegah.

:bow: The Idiot (GN) will blame anyone or anything that he can grab for lossing and playing with no clear tacktic. After Pegah game, he blamed, Daei, fun and refs for the loss.

[maij]

If your whole basis for something is passion, it is a different story. I was trying to bring in logic here. Regardless of how passionate or not I am about certain things there is a reality. Water boils at 100 degrees Fahrenheit, regardless of I like it or not.

There is a certain code of behavior for a professional coach, regardless of I like that coach or not. See my posts in this thread and despite my overall positive view about GN, I have no fear to come and say this comment of Mr. GN wasn't right in my point of view.

Your post really puzzles me. In my age and your age, hopefully we have learned enough to not just go by blind Passion. I was merely asking for consistency in applying the principal. I don't have any personal passion toward GN or X or Y. . I judge them with my imperfect understanding as I see it. See my last 5 posts where I criticize GN's comments in this specific incident. So there is no US against them mentality. I defend GN or X or Y based on his actions. Some of his actions deserves support in my (granted imperfect) understanding and some doesn't.

Forget about so called "Daie haters as you label them" for a second. If Armin or Kaz or BehzadB criticize Daie's certain action, do they have a pedar ***hteghi with Daie? Can you tell me in your view, everything Mr. Daie has done is perfect? What happened to critical thinking? Don't forget we all are Iranians and see things in our own way which can be wrong. Nobody has pedar ***hteghi with Mr. Daie. I am sure your heard the story by Molavi, how bunch of people who hasn't seen an Elephant, were blindfolded and placed on the side and front and back of the elephant and were told to touch the elephant and based on their touch say what an Elephant is? One who touched the tusk said it is hard piece of wood? Other one said is a soft cylindrical shape (was touching the leg). This is an example of how imperfect our understanding of the reality and truth is (myself included). Even Carl Popper American philosopher says the same thing, our understanding is imperfect and each of us get part of the truth. Our best hope is to exchange our imperfect understanding of the truth through dialog in a never ending quest to get closer (mind you get closer not full comprehension) of truth.

Ala is a perfect example of GN's personal enemy even. But even existence of people like him, doesn't make me to give a white check of unconditionally support to Mr. GN or X or Y.

I never thought I am profiling or anything, I simply requested consistency. To me respecting the TM head coach doesn't mean treating him as a sacred man that can do no wrong. And with all the due respect, it seems (at least in practice is what you are doing).

No pun intended agha maij and dar masal monaghesh nist, but as the quote says in English " the road to hell is paved with good intentions". I am not trying to compare X or Y to hell, I merely am saying, it is not our intentions, it is what we do at times (unconsciously) that matters.

I read your posts and with my granted imperfect understanding, what I see is double standard in your posts. I can be wrong and been wrong before and said this as a friend. To many other people I wouldn't have said this, since I saw their logic and my personal expectation from them (right or wrong) was different. I (as a virtual friend) saw something and tried to communicate with you. That was all. It seems I was wrong.


Well , I am glad that you understand that you can be wrong in your assumptions and you are quite mistaken about my bias. Period.

Once again, I am only asking you to stick to the subject matter rather trying to analyze my personality and questioning my consistency. I do not need to justify or refer to my previous posts in support for the likes GN or Ghotbi. Like you , I am not perfect either and life is dynamic. Events and circumstances change and it is not necessary for me or anyone else to maintain the party line religiously. Nothing is too sacred for me and like I have said a million time, I am not on the pay roll of anyone.

We will go nowhere if we keep referring to personalities and arguments in a manner like “mine is bigger than yours”. Neither me or you have a mutual knowledge and acquaintance of each other to form a definite opinions, so why not discuss the subject matter regardless whether who is write or wrong based on factual events instead of trying to undermine each others ?

[Ali Chicago]

Well , I am glad that you understand that you can be wrong in your assumptions and you are quite mistaken about my bias. Period.

Once again, I am only asking you to stick to the subject matter rather trying to analyze my personality and questioning my consistency. I do not need to justify or refer to my previous posts in support for the likes GN or Ghotbi. Like you , I am not perfect either and life is dynamic. Events and circumstances change and it is not necessary for me or anyone else to maintain the party line religiously. Nothing is too sacred for me and like I have said a million time, I am not on the pay roll of anyone.

We will go nowhere if we keep referring to personalities and arguments in a manner like “mine is bigger than yours”. Neither me or you have a mutual knowledge and acquaintance of each other to form a definite opinions, so why not discuss the subject matter regardless whether who is write or wrong based on factual events instead of trying to undermine each others ?

Where did I mention or acted as if I am better than anyone Agha Maij? Can you point it out to me, so I at least realize what I am doing wrong? I am imperfect like any other human being, but being conceited and show off, I doubt it.

Seems like we are in different planets. Where did I undermine you? Where did I try to act like I am better and know it all? Maybe it is the English language here that adds unwanted complexity here. Or the one way communication through text?

I gave you an example, while generally I have a positive view about coaching abilities of GN, I criticized certain behavior of GN in the past (his abrasive behavior toward media) and recent comments about Daie. (see the last 10 posts in this thread).

I asked you two simple questions, do you think Daie has done anything wrong? If yes, may I see where did you criticize that (in a positive way?)?.

What does supporting a coach means to you? He is right always and we should simply follow whatever the leader/coach says follow without trying to analyze it with our own (granted imperfect) brain and thinking?

Can it get any simpler than this?

[maij]

GH was wrong to Blame absence of two players for his teams loss.

And, Daei was wrong to attack GH personaly,and saying he is nobody in Esteghlal.

And GH was right to attack him back,and defend....

When did he say that ?

[maij]

Where did I mention or acted as if I am better than anyone Agha Maij? Can you point it out to me, so I at least realize what I am doing wrong? I am imperfect like any other human being, but being conceited and show off, I doubt it.

Seems like we are in different planets. Where did I undermine you? Where did I try to act like I am better and know it all? Maybe it is the English language here that adds unwanted complexity here. Or the one way communication through text?

I gave you an example, while generally I have a positive view about coaching abilities of GN, I criticized certain behavior of GN in the past (his abrasive behavior toward media) and recent comments about Daie. (see the last 10 posts in this thread).

I asked you two simple questions, do you think Daie has done anything wrong? If yes, may I see where did you criticize that (in a positive way?)?.

What does supporting a coach means to you? He is right always and we should simply follow whatever the leader/coach says follow without trying to analyze it with our own (granted imperfect) brain and thinking?

Can it get any simpler than this?

I am referring to these




While, I agree that GN comment about complainig about loss of his players and its impact on the loss wasn't professional, I am amazed at what I see as a bias you have toward Mr. Daie. I wish you had the same standards for judging Mr. Daie when you judge every body else (i.e GN, Ghotbi, etc. etc.).






Your post really puzzles me. In my age and your age, hopefully we have learned enough to not just go by blind Passion. I was merely asking for consistency in applying the principal.

[Ala]

I am referring to these


majid jan,

there are some people around here that cannot engage in civil discussions
and soon resort to slander and personal attacks. it's better not to waste
time discussing things with them as it usually goes nowhere.

.

[Ghormeh Sabzi]

Ghalenoi harchi ke gofteh khoob karde va khoob ghofteh
daastesh dard nakoneh.. why do zan daei fans get all pissy when someone starts questioning and calling out zan daei
it seems like everyone is criticizing each other lol

[Ala]

hezaji responds to qalenoi's absurd accusations of daei:

Hezaji: Unlike some people, Daei is an educated person



حجازى: غيبت بازيكنان بهانه است!
دايى برخلاف بعضى ها تحصيلكرده است


187929.jpg



ايران ورزشى - اختلاف على دايى و قلعه نويى مربيان فعلى و سابق تيم ملى اين روزها به اوج خود رسيده است. از يك سو دايى، قلعه نويى را از دخالت در تيم ملى بر حذر مى دارد و از سوى ديگر امير در جا زدن تيم ملى را به خاطر حضور دايى مى داند. ناصر حجازى سرمربى فصل گذشته استقلال كه اين روزها در آستانه قبول سرمربيگرى نساجى قرار دارد اين كشمكش ها و درگيرى ها را به سود فوتبال نمى داند. حجازى كه زمانى سرمربى دايى در بانك تجارت بوده از روابط خوبى با شاگرد سابقش برخوردار است ولى رابطه او با طرف ديگر اين دعوا، امير قلعه نويى، تعريف چندانى ندارد. شايد به همين خاطر باشد كه در جريان صحبت هايش دايى را برخلاف بعضى ها تحصيلكرده مى داند.

آقاى حجازى اختلافاتى ميان سرمربى تيم با تعدادى از مربيان در خصوص دعوت از بازيكنان براى رقابت هاى غرب آسيا به وجود آمده و در همين رابطه صحبت هايى عليه يكديگر مطرح شده است.
ببينيد اين مسائل و كشمكش ها به نفع فوتبال نيست و بايد به طور مسالمت آميز حل شود.

به نظر شما نبود ۲ بازيكن در روند حركتى تيم تأثير دارد چيزى كه امير قلعه نوعى نسبت به آن معترض بود.
به اعتقاد من نبايد اين طور باشد، زمان من محسن يوسفى هفت بازى نبود، جبارى را تا هفته ۸-7 نداشتيم، كوشكى و مجيدى را هم تا هفته دهم، پس وقتى يك تيم را براى سه جام مى بنديم بايد نفراتى را براى محدوديت ها ومصدوميت هاى احتمالى جذب كرده باشيم.

اما تعدادى از بازيكنان جديد استقلال مصدوم هستند و ...
اين از بدشانسى آنهاست اما اين مسائل در همه جاى دنيا وجود دارد و فكر مى كنم خيلى از تيم هاى ليگ برترى، در هفته دوم يكى دو بازيكن خودشان را نداشتند.

آقاى حجازى انتقادى كه از سرمربى تيم ملى مى شود اين است كه معمولا در جبهه مخالف رسانه ها قرار دارد و ارتباط مناسبى با آنها ندارد.

به نظرم اين طور نيست، دايى تحصيلكرده است و با آنهايى كه تحصيلات بالايى ندارند فرق مى كند و شايد اگر خيلى ها جاى او بودند مغرورتر مى شدند و با يك دهم افتخارات او جواب سلام مردم را در خيابان نمى دادند.

شما قبول داريد كه بازيهاى غرب آسيا خيلى مهم نبود و مى شد از تيم دوم استفاده كرد
با شما موافقم اگر به جوان تر ها ميدان مى داديم خيلى بهتر بود و مى توانستيم يكى دو پديده هم از آنها انتخاب كنيم.
اما تيم هاى حاضر در بازيهاى غرب آسيا محك خوبى براى ما نخواهند بود.
من هم معتقدم كه اين بازيها تداركات خوبى براى تيم ملى كه مى خواهد به مصاف عربستان و كره جنوبى و چند تيم مطرح آسيايى برود نيست.

نظر شما در مورد دعوت از مهدوى كيا، هاشميان و كريمى چيست
من فكر مى كنم مهدوى كيا و هاشميان دعوت مى شوند چون حضورشان به تيم ملى كمك مى كند.

و على كريمى
او بازيكن بزرگى است اما بايد خودش را با شرايط انضباطى تمرينات وفق دهد.
اما ظاهرا به خاطر انتقادى كه از فدراسيون داشته دعوت نمى شود.
اين خط طبيعى فدراسيون است و بازيكن هم بايد چارچوب خود را بشناسد.

سؤال آخر در مورد مذاكره شما با مسؤولان نساجى است...
صحبت هايى انجام شده و به آنها گفته ام اگر انتظارات را برآورده كنند مى روم.
چه انتظاراتى
فصل گذشته بعضى تيم ها۴-3 ميليارد هزينه كردند اما نتوانستند به ليگ برتر بيايند، پس با ۲۰۰-300 ميليون نمى توان كارى كرد، من به آن ها گفته ام حدود ۸۰۰ ميليون تا يك ميليارد را بايد در نظر بگيرند در غير اين صورت در منزلم استراحت مى كنم، اين طورى ديگر كسى نمى گويد نتوانست كارى بكند.

[maij]

Ghalenoi harchi ke gofteh khoob karde va khoob ghofteh
daastesh dard nakoneh.. why do zan daei fans get all pissy when someone starts questioning and calling out zan daei
it seems like everyone is criticizing each other lol

Why don't you start behaving yourself and act as a grown up and as a man ????

[Agha Kasra]

Ala you know by yourselve that Iran Varzeshi and co write too much bullsh*t. Of all persons you should know that.

BTW What is the source of the first article?

[maij]

Ghalenoi harchi ke gofteh khoob karde va khoob ghofteh
daastesh dard nakoneh.. why do zan daei fans get all pissy when someone starts questioning and calling out zan daei
it seems like everyone is criticizing each other lol

Why don't you start behaving yourself and act as a grown up and as a man ????

[Ala]

Ala you know by yourselve that Iran Varzeshi and co write too much bullsh*t. Of all persons you should know that.

BTW What is the source of the first article?


Kasra jan,

I have high regards for u and appreciate ur services to PFDC.
There are certain things that u just haven't been around long
enough to understand yet and that is not ur fault at all.

My advice to u is to use ur reason and logic more in analyzing things
and put emotions and zeal behind the logic.
.

[Siavash]

Ghalenoi harchi ke gofteh khoob karde va khoob ghofteh
daastesh dard nakoneh.. why do zan daei fans get all pissy when someone starts questioning and calling out zan daei
it seems like everyone is criticizing each other lol

I am disappointed at u babe.

[Ala]

Originally Posted by MehdiKing View Post
Guys, this is rediculous!!!!

After a long time, we finally saw a good performance of our beloved TM and instead of positively motivating our team and national coach, every idiot (Club coaches, Masoolin, resaane ha ......) is bashing Daei again!!!!! come on guys, we have a hard qualification task to take care of and let`s just SUPPORT our TM!!!!
We all know tyhat Daei is not doing everything perfect, because nobody does, but atleast we know that this guy loves TM, since he was the `GHEIRATI TARIN`player we had and he had the balls to change everything and trust the young and talented players our nation has.
So just let the guy do his job and just SUPPORT our TM for god sakes!!!!!


Mehdi jan,

Thanks for ur wonderful post.

I apologize for the canceling of ur post. The fact is Daei's success will shake up
Iranian football and even the thought of Daei's success sends chill into
the opportunists spine. Therefore, the recent attacks on Daei is no all
that surprising. Their aim is to create Hashieh for him and cause his failure.

BUT, Daei is focused and has done a marvelous job so far and a major
success will set him on the right track. He has done big things for us
including renewing TM and restoring the discipline and reduce Hashieh to nill.

.

[Ala]

Daei: Qalenoi's comments are laughening. Evey1 knows I quit TM after WC
but let him be happy with the though that he set me aside!

He says his priority is giving the youth like Hajsafi, AleNemeh, Parvin and Rafkhaei
and fortunately, his young players are getting better every day.



از حرف*هاي قلعه*نويي خنده*ام مي*گيرد

دايي گفت: «حقيقتا وقتي اين حرف*ها را مي*شنوم خنده*ام مي*گيرد چراكه همه مي*دانند كه من بعد از جام*جهاني قصد بازي كردن در تيم ملي را نداشتم و اگر اين آقا (قلعه*نويي) گفته كه علي دايي را از تيم ملي خط زدم اجازه بدهيد به همين حرف*ها خوش باشد.»دايي گفت:* «هدف من بها دادن و ميدان دادن به جواناني مثل حاج*صفي، احمد آل نعمه،*‏ پروين، رافخايي و... در تيم ملي است و خوشبختانه اينها روز به روز بهتر مي*شوند.

وي در مورد بازي ديروز تيم ملي با قطر گفت:*‏ «خدا را شكر بچه*ها ديروز خيلي خوب بودند و همه كادرفني را نسبت به آينده اميدوار كردند.»
علي دايي در پايان گفت: «من در تيم ملي كار خودم را انجام مي*دهم و بهتر است دوستان من هم در ساير تيم*ها به فكر كار خود باشند.»

[Ala]

Qalenoi will probably be called to the IFF disciplinary committee for his remarks


احتمال احضار قلعه*نويي به كميته انضباطي

فتح*الله*زاده در پاسخ به شايعه احضار امير قلعه*نويي به كميته انضباطي مي*گويد: «بنده با احضار آقاي قلعه نويي به کميته*انضباطي مخالفم و معتقدم ايشان در پاسخ به صحبت*هاي آقاي دايي فقط از خودش دفاع کرده است
و بحث دو فرد مطرح شده نه دو تيم.آقاي دايي در مصاحبه*اي درباره آقاي قلعه نويي صحبت کرده و قلعه نويي هم پاسخ داده است،به همين دليل نيازي به احضار آقاي قلعه*نويي به کميته انضباطي نيست.» آيا او حرف خود را به كرسي مي*نشاند؟

[kaz]

Whether Daei wants to select 1 player or 7 from Esteghlal is none of your business, it is Daei's business..... So , what kind of line of argument is this ?

GN has been TM coach and I don't recall anyone has told him or dictated t him how may players from each team he selects.

But it is my business and it is my clubs business. The selection of players and taking them from the club is illegal in most parts of the world.

This was not a Fifa backed tourney where the players were free to go. The clubs should have been allowed to retain their players and but for the country we/they live in and the government pressure, it would have happened.

Anyway, when saying "nobodies business" I didn't mean that in a personal way. I mean that whether GN thinks Jabbari is 50% of his team is his business really. Whether Jabbari is taken unfairly from Esteghlal is our business.



YES , certainly so... theses Daei Bashers have certainly set a standard that only a professional psychiatric can decipher and cure.

Give me a break..... Put some creditable content in your arguments rather hiding under the cover of pro and anti Daei.

Credible content? Hello?! Does it get more simpler than this:

Esteghlal was missing 2 players and was forced to play their match.
Sepahan was missing 3 players and got their match postponed.
Saipa was missing 5 players and their their match postponed.

The teams that got their matches postponed now have the advantage of playing that round again with ALL their players.

[kaz]

It seems that your lies were exposed at ISP and you are back here.
When did Ghotbi say that what Daei did to Esteghlal was wrong? In fact, when has Ghotbi eve commmented on other teams business, specially Esteghlal?
Its the same story, you get backed into a corner and start lying to save face.

Dude, Ghotbi said it. Were you even reading that ISP thread? RDA had posted this:


سرمربي تيم فوتبال پرسپوليس همچنين در مورد شكست تيم فوتبال استقلال تهران برابر پگاه گيلان نيز گفت: در مورد شكست استقلال نظري نمي*دهم اما نبايد فراموش كرد كه تيم ملي بازيكنان خوب و اثرگذار اين تيم را مانند طالب*لو و كاظمي در اختيار گرفته است و شايد عامل باخت آبي*پوشان همين باشد. قطبي خاطرنشان كرد: ما به صورت حرفه*اي به بازيكنان ليگ برتر پول مي*دهيم پس بايد تيم ملي ايران فقط در روزهايي كه فيفا مشخص كرده است بازيكنان اصلي تيم*ها را در اختيار بگيرد تا ليگ برتر ايران نامنظم نشود.
وي افزود: هماهنگي بين مربيان ليگ برتر و مربي تيم ملي بسيار مهم است اما من تا امروز حتي يكبار با علي دايي در مورد بازيكنانم صحبت نكردم پس آيا مي*توانم به فوتبال ملي و سرمربي تيم ملي كمك كنم؟
سرمربي تيم فوتبال پرسپوليس يادآور شد: تيم كره در جام جهاني 2002 فقط 48 ساعت الي 72 ساعت بازيكنان ليگ برتري خود را در اختيار تيم ملي قرار داد و ديديد كه چگونه اين كار كره*ايي*ها براي تيم* ملي كشورشان مؤثر بود. اگر من هم در اين باره نظري مي*دهم تجربه دارم و آموزش زيرنظر مربيان بزرگ ديده*ام پس بايد شجاع باشم و با اعتمادبه*نفس در مورد تيم خودم و تيم ملي كه متعلق به كشورم است نظر بدهم.
افشين قطبي در پايان خاطرنشان شد: اميدوارم كه در بازي بعدي 100 هزار هوادار را در استاديوم آزادي با لطف مسئولان فدراسيون فوتبال ببينيم تا ليگ برتر پويايي خودش را حفظ كند.

Go quote the posts. :) Why was it that even those who fervently dislike GN were agreeing with me? You're one funny guy.

Now show me where on ISP I was exposed. If you can't find them, then get go put your tail between your legs as you usually do there and do it here. Cherto-pert goftan will catch up to you eventually. Liar? Didn't we establish you were the liar? Like again, here?

[Ali Chicago]

I am referring to these


I read the portions your posted again and maybe it is me, but I don't see anything on those posts that can potentially be condesending toward anyone. I merely made a general statement not going by passion and expressed my opinion about you being biased (in my opinion toward Daie). You claimed the same thing in your post (me being biased toward GN) and I didn't interpret it as insulting or condesending.

See Below when you attributed the same passion toward GN to me, did I take it as you taking high road or insulting toward me? No.

Ali Jan…
….As much as you have passion towards GN or some others have for Ghotbi ,
....

You say there isn't a dobule standard let see some facts: The following is the post by

qalenoi needs to shut up.
...... so he just needs to shut up.

What was your reaction, did you even bother to comment that, he is the former coach of the TM and shouldn't be talked about in that way.

See the thread by Ala about General Be Setareh. Did I hear a peep from you?

Firooz Karimi who was brought mid-season to save Esteghlal was
prematurely sacked by Aliabadi who replaced him with his goon,
Qalenoi who has made a team full of stars ....
.

Former TM coach is called a goon. When we will start to stand up against this low level culture of insult. People criticiuze Daie and you roar like a lion, former TM coach is called a goon by Ala and life goes on. It isn't about GN, Ghotbi. Same culture of insult and name calling followed Branko when he left. This is about a principal not a single person.

It is your proragetive to say or not say a thing, but when I say bias, it is not by any stretch of imagination figment of my imagination. Just gave you a couple of examples. This isn't only about GN. A mild criticisem (not even criticisem by Ghotbi a mere comment by him) a thread by Siavash and Ghotbi is called Enemy of the TM. What was your reaction?

You are free to do whatever you want, but I can observe for myself as well. People have the right to comment about the behavior of Khomeini, Goerge Bush, Ahmadi Nezahd, Daie, Ghotbi, GN as long as there is no insult. I commented about what I preceived without any Khodaye Nakardeh Insult or bad language. Anyways, apparently we better agree to disagree. I was hoping with the help of users like you, one day we can establish a different environment toward former TM and current TM players and coaching staff. After WC2006 despite my total anger and disappointment toward Daie, when people came here and asked or claimed they will go and break his leg, again and again I said that was wrong and we all need to remember how Daie in 2002 WC qaulifications flew thousands of miles between Germany Iran East Asia to play for Iran so we can get to WC 2002.

It is not about GN or Ghotbi or Dr. Z or Payroovani or Estilit. It is about respecting people who are in charge, those who today swear and insult GN, tomorrow if TM doesn't do well will swear at Daie or X or Y.
This is the last post of me in this thread, I tried to express myself to the best of my abilities.

[kaz]

I didnt want to post in this thread as alot of people mentioned the facts I wanted to express, but I have to add that GN started the attacks by blaming Daei after his loss against Pegah.

Didn't Daei's criticism of GN start before the Pegah match? :o

[kaz]

Why don't you start behaving yourself and act as a grown up and as a man ????

Majid jan, why is it that you have stopped that poster whilst letting those insult GN run free? Has 'Siavash' given one decent post in this thread?

[kaz]

lol... You just exposed yourself, feel sorry for your kind.
My my, what an intellectual response to all the points raised. You really covered yourself with flowers there.

[Me(-)Ran*]

We need to deport this man back to Qaleh-ye Now, a village in the suburbs of
Harat in Afghanestan and close to Darreh-ye Bum, where he came from.
http://i35.tinypic.com/2cqegr7.gif
.
:bow: :bow: :bow: simplu priceless :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[shayan20]

at this crucial time, everyone, including daei haters should unite and support Daei as our coach.
We shouldn't make fun of him or criticize him, after all, he's still at a young age for coaching and he's getting experienced.
Daei shireh.
TM behtarrine.
ghalenoei va ghotbi ham bayad saket bemooonan. midoonam konesh sookhte vali dige zer zer ta che had.

[xoraster]

Dude, Ghotbi said it. Were you even reading that ISP thread? RDA had posted this:


سرمربي تيم فوتبال پرسپوليس همچنين در مورد شكست تيم فوتبال استقلال تهران برابر پگاه گيلان نيز گفت: در مورد شكست استقلال نظري نمي*دهم اما نبايد فراموش كرد كه تيم ملي بازيكنان خوب و اثرگذار اين تيم را مانند طالب*لو و كاظمي در اختيار گرفته است و شايد عامل باخت آبي*پوشان همين باشد. قطبي خاطرنشان كرد: ما به صورت حرفه*اي به بازيكنان ليگ برتر پول مي*دهيم پس بايد تيم ملي ايران فقط در روزهايي كه فيفا مشخص كرده است بازيكنان اصلي تيم*ها را در اختيار بگيرد تا ليگ برتر ايران نامنظم نشود.
وي افزود: هماهنگي بين مربيان ليگ برتر و مربي تيم ملي بسيار مهم است اما من تا امروز حتي يكبار با علي دايي در مورد بازيكنانم صحبت نكردم پس آيا مي*توانم به فوتبال ملي و سرمربي تيم ملي كمك كنم؟
سرمربي تيم فوتبال پرسپوليس يادآور شد: تيم كره در جام جهاني 2002 فقط 48 ساعت الي 72 ساعت بازيكنان ليگ برتري خود را در اختيار تيم ملي قرار داد و ديديد كه چگونه اين كار كره*ايي*ها براي تيم* ملي كشورشان مؤثر بود. اگر من هم در اين باره نظري مي*دهم تجربه دارم و آموزش زيرنظر مربيان بزرگ ديده*ام پس بايد شجاع باشم و با اعتمادبه*نفس در مورد تيم خودم و تيم ملي كه متعلق به كشورم است نظر بدهم.
افشين قطبي در پايان خاطرنشان شد: اميدوارم كه در بازي بعدي 100 هزار هوادار را در استاديوم آزادي با لطف مسئولان فدراسيون فوتبال ببينيم تا ليگ برتر پويايي خودش را حفظ كند.

Go quote the posts. :) Why was it that even those who fervently dislike GN were agreeing with me? You're one funny guy.

Now show me where on ISP I was exposed. If you can't find them, then get go put your tail between your legs as you usually do there and do it here. Cherto-pert goftan will catch up to you eventually. Liar? Didn't we establish you were the liar? Like again, here?


You have been exposed many times. Everyone knows you. Thats why you have 3-5 threads going about GN in each site. If its not an agenda, then I dont know what.

Regarding Ghotbi, he is, like most other coaches saying that he wants to keep his national team players. In fact Guardiola said the same thing and wanted Messi back, it does not transport into that Guardiola supports GN.

[sullakh]

However little I like GN, everything he says is true, then again, I still blame him for ruining TM, he damaged the foundation.

not too clear on your conclusion ..but atleast you're thinking ...and nice job as staff too..

[Bobbyrider]

who cares what ghalenoi says he had his chance with TM and he ruined it big time with khatibi and enayati lol. Lets just support Ali Daei for what he is trying to do for our football at least for now. He will get fired of the TM coaching job sometime anyway so it doesnt matter lets see how he does with TM in the qualifiers. Ghalenoi and Daei both may have a gay attitude but let GN say whatever he wants to its not like it will change anything in TM. GN should mind his own bussiness and same goes for Daei as he has a tough task infront of him.

[kaz]

You have been exposed many times. Everyone knows you. Thats why you have 3-5 threads going about GN in each site. If its not an agenda, then I dont know what.
Regarding Ghotbi, he is, like most other coaches saying that he wants to keep his national team players. In fact Guardiola said the same thing and wanted Messi back, it does not transport into that Guardiola supports GN.

Where and how have I been "exposed" about anything. I have 3-5 thread going on each site? Okay, link them here so we can see.

Otherwise we know you are a liar. I just proved you wrong.

Ghotbi said he can see how Esteghlal was disadvantaged and that IF the national team wants to use the players it should be on Fifa dates.

Cherto-pert goftan honor nist agha babak.

We're waiting on you to show us these "expositions". So far, I caught you out...yet again. And with your tail between your legs you're meandering again. Go, show us those threads son. Exposed! :rofl:

BTW, thanks for reminding me, there was a site I hadn't visited in a while to spread my "agenda" - you know, the truth. There are more than enough people like yourself going around sites like Ala lying about everything :).

[maij]

majid jan,

there are some people around here that cannot engage in civil discussions
and soon resort to slander and personal attacks. it's better not to waste
time discussing things with them as it usually goes nowhere.

.

Agha Ala , I have no problem with people who want to discuss matters in a civilized and constructive manner even if they are not exactly to my liking.

But we can let this good forum be hijacked by people who have nothing but grudges and ill feelings.

It is quite true that some people here who can not argue their points , resort to personal attacks, simply because their pockets are empty.

[kaz]

and soon resort to slander and personal attacks


The irony...this post comes from Ala. :o


It is quite true that some people here who can not argue their points , resort to personal attacks, simply because their pockets are empty.

Majid jan, I wish our TM coach wasn't like that too.

[maij]

But it is my business and it is my clubs business. The selection of players and taking them from the club is illegal in most parts of the world..

OH really...... So all the national teams of the World should not exists because the players belong to their clubs...so , every national team is an illegal entity .!!!!!

Well, well....what do we know?




This was not a Fifa backed tourney where the players were free to go. The clubs should have been allowed to retain their players and but for the country we/they live in and the government pressure, it would have happened.


Who told you that national teams cannot play friendlies or tournaments EXCEPT in FIFA day ????
There is a tournament in the Persian Gulf that started in 1970 and up to the writing of this post has never been recognized by AFC or FIFA.





Anyway, when saying "nobodies business" I didn't mean that in a personal way. I mean that whether GN thinks Jabbari is 50% of his team is his business really. Whether Jabbari is taken unfairly from Esteghlal is our business.

OK , I buy that , but as much as you give the club coach the right , the national coach must be given the same right , it is called fairness.






Credible content? Hello?! Does it get more simpler than this:

Esteghlal was missing 2 players and was forced to play their match.
Sepahan was missing 3 players and got their match postponed.
Saipa was missing 5 players and their their match postponed.

The teams that got their matches postponed now have the advantage of playing that round again with ALL their players.


This has been the law in Team Melli as far as I can remember , nothing to do with Daei , Ghalenoei or Ghotbi. So , you need to direct your grievances towards IFF regulation.


BTW: not that it matters , but somewhere you mentioned Ghotbi in your previous posts, how about this.

قطبى:

بازى هاى غرب آسيا براى تيم ملى مفيد است


افشين قطبى قبل از بازى پرسپوليس و پاس از دايى انتقاد كرده بود اما حالا بازى هاى غرب آسيا را براى تيم ملى كشورمان مفيد مى داند و مى گويد: «چون تيم ملى بازى هاى تداركاتى مفيدى نداشته، مسلماً بازى هاى غرب آسيا براى اين تيم مفيد خواهد بود. من چهره هاى جوان بسيارى را در تيم ملى ديدم كه خيلى خوب و پخته بازى مى كنند و مسلماً مى توانند در ديدارهاى آتى نيز بسيار مفيد واقع شوند. البته به نظر من هنوز جاى چند بازيكن پرسپوليس مثل باقرى، زارع و... در تيم ملى خالى است اما آنهايى كه در بازى هاى غرب آسيا بازى كردند، شايستگى هاى خود را به على دايى نشان دادند. من هم هيچ مشكلى با دايى ندارم و مسلماً آرزو دارم كه تيم ملى با اين مربى به جام جهانى برود و در آن صورت من هم مثل همه ايرانى ها خوشحال خواهم شد.


And also , you might find this one interesting:
پشت پرده فوبيا!


امير قلعه نويى بازگشته است به فوبياى چند سال قبل. آن روزها كه استقلال در كورس قهرمانى با پاس و فولاد و سپاهان قرار داشت هر باختى را به حساب دست هاى پشت پرده مى گذاشتند. آن روزها امير بنا را گذاشته بود به تهديد دشمنان فرضى و هى مى گفت: كارى نكنيد در حضور مردم افشايتان كنم! اما حتى پس از آن روزى كه استقلال جام حذفى را در تهران تقديم سپاهان كرد نيز بر اسم كسى نرفت انگشت! در ادامه مردم به اين دشمنان نامرئى عادت كرده و ياد گرفتند كه ديگر نبايد منتظر افشاى نام ايشان باشند.
ريشه در فيلم «همه مردان پادشاه» نيز مى بينيم كه يك چهره سياسى «پوپوليست» چگونه از واژه ها استفاده مى كند تا از طريق بازى با افكار عمومى و طرح وعده هايى غير واقعى به محبوبيت خود بيفزايد. مى گويند كه «ظهور» نو محافظه كاران در اقصى نقاط اين كره خاكى به مفهوم بازگشت اين منش سياسى است اما بخردان چه آن موقع كه رهبران پوپوليستى جامعه آرمانگراى اتحاد جماهير شوروى را بنا گذاشتند اين رويه را افراطى مى خواندند و چه امروز كه نومحافظه كاران به وعده سازى بيشتر راغب هستند تا كار تخصصى از نقد ايشان غافل نمى شوند، پس امير هم كه پيشتر درباره اش نوشته ايم «تغيير كرده است.» نبايد از شيوه اى كه به لحاظ اخلاقى مرده به حساب مى آيد در جهت تبرئه خود بهره بگيرد. به راه انداختن جنگ هاى روانى البته شگرد مربيانى است كه مى خواهند از آب گل آلود رقابت، ماهى قهرمانى بگيرند، ليكن اگر گاهى بپذيريم كه مقصر شكست خودمان بوده ايم - و يا حتى توان حريف - بيشتر جواب مى دهد تا فرافكنى به آن شكل كه از قلعه نويى سراغ داريم.
باختيد چون در اينكه كاظمى و طالب لو مهره هاى ارزشمندى براى استقلال هستند سرسوزنى جاى ترديد وجود ندارد اما اگر اين تيم نه به خاطر تيم ملى كه به دليل محروميت يا مصدوميت ايشان را از دست داد، تكليف چيست؟ آيا در آن صورت تيمى كه خود را در غياب ايشان مجاز به باختن مى داند با ۳ جامى كه براى فتحشان ميلياردها تومان هزينه كرده است وداع خواهد كرد؟! باور كنيد ما مدافع سياست هاى دايى در تيم ملى نيستيم و با بسيارى از تصميم هايى كه توسط او اخذ مى شوند مشكل داريم اما به نظرمان پيروزى پگاه در خانه اش بيشتر از آنكه مرهون غيبت وحيد و حسين باشد نتيجه دروازه بانى خوب نظرمحمدى بود و ارنج اشتباه استقلال و بازيخوانى ذوالفقارنسب. اگر آن موقع كه دكتر شعاع حركتى مهدوى را افزايش داد امير هم تغييرى در كميت نيروهاى مدافعش ايجاد مى كرد، شايد نتيجه به گونه اى رقم مى خورد تا امروز شاهد بحث هاى حاشيه اى نباشيم، منتهى يادمان نرود كه امير از آن مناظره تلويزيونى ذوالفقارنسب خاطره خوبى ندارد و با الطبع نمى تواند پذيراى يك شكست ديگر از او باشد.

[maij]

Majid jan, why is it that you have stopped that poster whilst letting those insult GN run free? Has 'Siavash' given one decent post in this thread?


There is a big difference , Kaz Jan.

This guy is insulting all Daei supporters in this childish post and name calling.

[maij]

I read the portions your posted again and maybe it is me, but I don't see anything on those posts that can potentially be condesending toward anyone. I merely made a general statement not going by passion and expressed my opinion about you being biased (in my opinion toward Daie). You claimed the same thing in your post (me being biased toward GN) and I didn't interpret it as insulting or condesending.

See Below when you attributed the same passion toward GN to me, did I take it as you taking high road or insulting toward me? No.



I have never said that you insulted my intelligence or otherwise. I felt disturbed when you said I am biased and inconsistent.

You have accused me of being biased towards Daei , I did not accuse you of being biased towards Ghalenoei. I mentioned the word PASSION not BIAS.
Anyway , I don't like to prolong the argument, perhaps the emotions gets the better of us sometimes and we get embroiled in side issues like What Ali Daei and Amir Ghalenoei are doing right now without looking at the bigger picture.

[pajamNL]

pfff, this isgetting in another fight daei haters on the lose....

[BehzadB]

............ perhaps the emotions gets the better of us sometimes and we get embroiled in side issues like What Ali Daei and Amir Ghalenoei are doing right now without looking at the bigger picture.


That's exactly what happened with Ali Daie and Ghalenoei too... Something that happens far too often in our football, among our so called "Bozorgtarha"

for me, the issue is rather Simple:

Every Club has the Right to Refuse giving players to their National team side, for games that are not on FIFA Calendar.

But here is the catch:

IF Osasuna refuses Nekounam and shojaie for these games, we call Osasuna "professional"... (the fact that these two players weren't called up is not the point, they would not have been allowed to leave even if they were)

IF an Iranian club does the same, we call them "Traitors", "Unprofessional", "Unfair" and all sorts of other 'things'... and of course our TM coach will probably never call players from that club again..

The other issue is canceling League games for NONE-FIFA games. No decent league will ever do that. Daie, of all people, knows that well..

Iranian Clubs should start practicing FIFA Rules, and TM staff should start accepting them..

my 2 cents

[xoraster]

Where and how have I been "exposed" about anything. I have 3-5 thread going on each site? Okay, link them here so we can see.

Otherwise we know you are a liar. I just proved you wrong.

Ghotbi said he can see how Esteghlal was disadvantaged and that IF the national team wants to use the players it should be on Fifa dates.

Cherto-pert goftan honor nist agha babak.

We're waiting on you to show us these "expositions". So far, I caught you out...yet again. And with your tail between your legs you're meandering again. Go, show us those threads son. Exposed! :rofl:

BTW, thanks for reminding me, there was a site I hadn't visited in a while to spread my "agenda" - you know, the truth. There are more than enough people like yourself going around sites like Ala lying about everything :).


Its funny how you always call people this and that.

Let me see, you are the only poster I know who goes to several sites and always writes about Ghalenoie.

If that is not having an agenda i dont know what is. But of course, you are just doing this to be fair and you dont have any bias.....

[maij]

That's exactly what happened with Ali Daie and Ghalenoei too... Something that happens far too often in our football, among our so called "Bozorgtarha"

for me, the issue is rather Simple:

Every Club has the Right to Refuse giving players to their National team side, for games that are not on FIFA Calendar.

But here is the catch:

IF Osasuna refuses Nekounam and shojaie for these games, we call Osasuna "professional"... (the fact that these two players weren't called up is not the point, they would not have been allowed to leave even if they were)

IF an Iranian club does the same, we call them "Traitors", "Unprofessional", "Unfair" and all sorts of other 'things'... and of course our TM coach will probably never call players from that club again..

The other issue is canceling League games for NONE-FIFA games. No decent league will ever do that. Daie, of all people, knows that well..

Iranian Clubs should start practicing FIFA Rules, and TM staff should start accepting them..

my 2 cents


I might agree with you Behzad jan , but pause for a minute right there ...

Is it Daei's idea to participate or be a member of WAFF or is it the football federation ?
When a coach is required to arrange a team , why should the likes of SS and PP , already enjoying the unequivocal support of entire system in the country , be excluded from providing the players?

Malavan lost as well and their best striker is in Team Melli and they are much more desperate that Esteghlal.

What Ghelnoei is doing is setting a precedent , a dangerous one for that matter and it should be stopped right there. The country has to decide what is the priority , the National Team or the clubs. In my own opinion , and I am not claiming like others that it should be a law, I believe the right balance must exist. Some sacrifices must be given.

If you don't already know , let me tell you that SS and PP and a few other clubs have been continuously refusing to release players to Team Melli practice sessions, not only during Daei's era even during Mr. GN time.

WAFF has started well before Daei got in the hot seat and players such as Hashemian and Karimi amongst others played in the tournament, so how come suddenly we think of it as a none existent meaningless tournament , just because a coach blames his club defeat on the absence of two players ?

To me that is simply shouldering the blames on others. How come this issue did not crop up in the last 4 tournaments?

As for Osasuna or others , I am not even going to consider such comparisons. Iran is not Spain and it is not England.
Use such comparisons when the standards, circumstances , cultures , policies are similar. For God sake , in Iran they are issuing bylaws to prevent players from having a trendy beard or hair , which in Western society is a direct breach of human rights, how can you compare Iran and Spain?

Granted, there are lots of discrepancies and shortcomings in Iran's football. There are lots of political & power struggles, lots of centric self interest , lots hypocrisy one of it is how a single person is blamed for the feeble performances of others.

I have said in my first post that Ghalenoei has gone back to his old tricks, and the piece of news from Abrar that I posted above is a definite proof of what I said. I think I have made my case clear on the issue.

[maij]

گل۶ ؛ پاسخ محكمى به منتقدان
قدرتنمايى تيم ملى با على دايى


درست در شرايطى كه فشارها عليه على دايى شدت پيدا كرده بود تيم ملى مقابل قطر دست به كار بزرگى زد و با ۶ گل اين تيم را له كرد. شايد برخى بگويند اين تيم دوم قطر بود اما نكته اينجاست كه تيم ما هم تيم اصلى نبود و حداقل ۸ غايب بزرگ داشت. نفراتى كه احتمالاً تا بازى با عربستان به تيم ملى دعوت مى شوند. زدن ۶ گل مقابل قطر به هر حال كار كوچكى نيست. فراموش نكنيم كه ما سابقه شكست ۲ بر صفر مقابل همين قطر را هم در كارنامه داريم و حالا زدن ۶ گل به اين تيم همه را به آينده تيم ملى اميدوار مى كند. قطر تيم درجه يكى نيست اما تيمى بوده كه گاهى اوقات موى دماغ بزرگان فوتبال آسيا شده است. آنها با اين ۶ گلى كه خوردند قدرت فوتبال ايران را لمس كردند و البته دايى هم جواب خوبى به منتقدان تيم ملى داد.

[kaz]

OH really...... So all the national teams of the World should not exists because the players belong to their clubs...so , every national team is an illegal entity .!!!!!

Well, well....what do we know?

Yes, to force club teams to give up their players on dates that Fifa has not designated the right to...it is illegal.

The existence of national teams is not dependent on taking players when they are not allowed to. Your point doesn't hold water.




Who told you that national teams cannot play friendlies or tournaments EXCEPT in FIFA day ????
There is a tournament in the Persian Gulf that started in 1970 and up to the writing of this post has never been recognized by AFC or FIFA.

Wrong. I didn't contend that they CANNOT play, I contend that they CANNOT FORCE clubs to give away their players.


OK , I buy that , but as much as you give the club coach the right , I the national coach must be given the same right , it is called fairness.

That's not correct. National team coach only has the right when it is on a Fifa designated date. Well, everywhere but our own.



This has been the law in Team Melli as far as I can remember , nothing to do with Daei , Ghalenoei or Ghotbi. So , you need to direct your grievances towards IFF regulation.

I do and I don't. The fact that Daei still has a seat in Saipa and that his former assistant is now Sepahan coach - both teams got their matches postponed - means there is a large conflict of interest. Now, the IFF let that conflict of interest slip, but now Daei has taken advantage of that conflict. So, Daei is not innocent in the least. That is why GN calls his decisions "mashkook".



BTW: not that it matters , but somewhere you mentioned Ghotbi in your previous posts, how about this.

قطبى:

بازى هاى غرب آسيا براى تيم ملى مفيد است


افشين قطبى قبل از بازى پرسپوليس و پاس از دايى انتقاد كرده بود اما حالا بازى هاى غرب آسيا را براى تيم ملى كشورمان مفيد مى داند و مى گويد: «چون تيم ملى بازى هاى تداركاتى مفيدى نداشته، مسلماً بازى هاى غرب آسيا براى اين تيم مفيد خواهد بود. من چهره هاى جوان بسيارى را در تيم ملى ديدم كه خيلى خوب و پخته بازى مى كنند و مسلماً مى توانند در ديدارهاى آتى نيز بسيار مفيد واقع شوند. البته به نظر من هنوز جاى چند بازيكن پرسپوليس مثل باقرى، زارع و... در تيم ملى خالى است اما آنهايى كه در بازى هاى غرب آسيا بازى كردند، شايستگى هاى خود را به على دايى نشان دادند. من هم هيچ مشكلى با دايى ندارم و مسلماً آرزو دارم كه تيم ملى با اين مربى به جام جهانى برود و در آن صورت من هم مثل همه ايرانى ها خوشحال خواهم شد.

You're right, it doesn't really matter. Whether the WAFF can be considered advantageous for TM doesn't make it fair for Esteghlal or other clubs. This is not a matter of opinion but a matter of fact. And, it's quite believable that Ghotbi could hold both opinions: that games should be on Fifa dates not to impinge on clubs' rights and that these games are beneficial for TM. The two are not exclusive - I actually hold this same opinion.



And also , you might find this one interesting:
پشت پرده فوبيا!

امير قلعه نويى بازگشته است به فوبياى چند سال قبل. آن روزها كه استقلال در كورس قهرمانى با پاس و فولاد و سپاهان قرار داشت هر باختى را به حساب دست هاى پشت پرده مى گذاشتند. آن روزها امير بنا را گذاشته بود به تهديد دشمنان فرضى و هى مى گفت: كارى نكنيد در حضور مردم افشايتان كنم! اما حتى پس از آن روزى كه استقلال جام حذفى را در تهران تقديم سپاهان كرد نيز بر اسم كسى نرفت انگشت! در ادامه مردم به اين دشمنان نامرئى عادت كرده و ياد گرفتند كه ديگر نبايد منتظر افشاى نام ايشان باشند.
ريشه در فيلم «همه مردان پادشاه» نيز مى بينيم كه يك چهره سياسى «پوپوليست» چگونه از واژه ها استفاده مى كند تا از طريق بازى با افكار عمومى و طرح وعده هايى غير واقعى به محبوبيت خود بيفزايد. مى گويند كه «ظهور» نو محافظه كاران در اقصى نقاط اين كره خاكى به مفهوم بازگشت اين منش سياسى است اما بخردان چه آن موقع كه رهبران پوپوليستى جامعه آرمانگراى اتحاد جماهير شوروى را بنا گذاشتند اين رويه را افراطى مى خواندند و چه امروز كه نومحافظه كاران به وعده سازى بيشتر راغب هستند تا كار تخصصى از نقد ايشان غافل نمى شوند، پس امير هم كه پيشتر درباره اش نوشته ايم «تغيير كرده است.» نبايد از شيوه اى كه به لحاظ اخلاقى مرده به حساب مى آيد در جهت تبرئه خود بهره بگيرد. به راه انداختن جنگ هاى روانى البته شگرد مربيانى است كه مى خواهند از آب گل آلود رقابت، ماهى قهرمانى بگيرند، ليكن اگر گاهى بپذيريم كه مقصر شكست خودمان بوده ايم - و يا حتى توان حريف - بيشتر جواب مى دهد تا فرافكنى به آن شكل كه از قلعه نويى سراغ داريم.
باختيد چون در اينكه كاظمى و طالب لو مهره هاى ارزشمندى براى استقلال هستند سرسوزنى جاى ترديد وجود ندارد اما اگر اين تيم نه به خاطر تيم ملى كه به دليل محروميت يا مصدوميت ايشان را از دست داد، تكليف چيست؟ آيا در آن صورت تيمى كه خود را در غياب ايشان مجاز به باختن مى داند با ۳ جامى كه براى فتحشان ميلياردها تومان هزينه كرده است وداع خواهد كرد؟! باور كنيد ما مدافع سياست هاى دايى در تيم ملى نيستيم و با بسيارى از تصميم هايى كه توسط او اخذ مى شوند مشكل داريم اما به نظرمان پيروزى پگاه در خانه اش بيشتر از آنكه مرهون غيبت وحيد و حسين باشد نتيجه دروازه بانى خوب نظرمحمدى بود و ارنج اشتباه استقلال و بازيخوانى ذوالفقارنسب. اگر آن موقع كه دكتر شعاع حركتى مهدوى را افزايش داد امير هم تغييرى در كميت نيروهاى مدافعش ايجاد مى كرد، شايد نتيجه به گونه اى رقم مى خورد تا امروز شاهد بحث هاى حاشيه اى نباشيم، منتهى يادمان نرود كه امير از آن مناظره تلويزيونى ذوالفقارنسب خاطره خوبى ندارد و با الطبع نمى تواند پذيراى يك شكست ديگر از او باشد.

Not really, I read the first few sentences and it sounds like a hit-piece. Although, it isn't far from the truth. Coaches like GN, Ali Daei, Ali Parvin are not humble in defeat and too proud to ever fault themselves.

But in this occasion there really is substantial backing to feel something is "mashkook".

[kaz]

There is a big difference , Kaz Jan.

This guy is insulting all Daei supporters in this childish post and name calling.

And Siavash is indirectly insulting other members AS WELL as insulting a former TM coach. I thought that was against the rules?

[kaz]

pfff, this isgetting in another fight daei haters on the lose....

Do you have to be a Daei hater to not agree with what Daei is doing? I've made my case abundantly clear: I will not give Daei a free pass on everything he does. He has done a lot of very wrong things. But will I let that affect my opinion on him as a coach? No, and if I do only so much that it is relevant.

Notice how people don't say: Daei is a laat, how is he TM coach? But the same criticism was proper for our old coach.

Now, I think Daei does some good things and after I heard his position in Shabe Shishehi I decided to be for him and the team rather than against. It really changed a lot of my perception of him.

But again, Daei hasn't done right here just as much, if not more, than GN.

[kaz]

Its funny how you always call people this and that.

Let me see, you are the only poster I know who goes to several sites and always writes about Ghalenoie.

If that is not having an agenda i dont know what is. But of course, you are just doing this to be fair and you dont have any bias.....

You make vast claims about me being exposed or a liar or having so many threads on so many sites but when I call you upon proving any of your lies you keep backing up and resorting to your own circular argument.

So either prove what you say, or I will call you what you are: dishonest.

[pajamNL]

I might agree with you Behzad jan , but pause for a minute right there ...

Is it Daei's idea to participate or be a member of WAFF or is it the football federation ?
When a coach is required to arrange a team , why should the likes of SS and PP , already enjoying the unequivocal support of entire system in the country , be excluded from providing the players?

Malavan lost as well and their best striker is in Team Melli and they are much more desperate that Esteghlal.

What Ghelnoei is doing is setting a precedent , a dangerous one for that matter and it should be stopped right there. The country has to decide what is the priority , the National Team or the clubs. In my own opinion , and I am not claiming like others that it should be a law, I believe the right balance must exist. Some sacrifices must be given.

If you don't already know , let me tell you that SS and PP and a few other clubs have been continuously refusing to release players to Team Melli practice sessions, not only during Daei's era even during Mr. GN time.

WAFF has started well before Daei got in the hot seat and players such as Hashemian and Karimi amongst others played in the tournament, so how come suddenly we think of it as a none existent meaningless tournament , just because a coach blames his club defeat on the absence of two players ?

To me that is simply shouldering the blames on others. How come this issue did not crop up in the last 4 tournaments?

As for Osasuna or others , I am not even going to consider such comparisons. Iran is not Spain and it is not England.
Use such comparisons when the standards, circumstances , cultures , policies are similar. For God sake , in Iran they are issuing bylaws to prevent players from having a trendy beard or hair , which in Western society is a direct breach of human rights, how can you compare Iran and Spain?

Granted, there are lots of discrepancies and shortcomings in Iran's football. There are lots of political & power struggles, lots of centric self interest , lots hypocrisy one of it is how a single person is blamed for the feeble performances of others.

I have said in my first post that Ghalenoei has gone back to his old tricks, and the piece of news from Abrar that I posted above is a definite proof of what I said. I think I have made my case clear on the issue.
again, fantastic spoken, truly respect you:bow:

[BehzadB]

WAFF has started well before Daei got in the hot seat and players such as Hashemian and Karimi amongst others played in the tournament, so how come suddenly we think of it as a none existent meaningless tournament , just because a coach blames his club defeat on the absence of two players ?

To me that is simply shouldering the blames on others. How come this issue did not crop up in the last 4 tournaments?




I have no argument with the fact that GN should not have blamed his team's loss on this or that... and I certainly don't blame any of this on Daie..

However, We have to accept the fact that a Club CAN deny TM it's players, Just as Europeans and Asian teams do. FIFA gives them that right.

and no, we can not wait for the day that our culture changes to their culture in order to practice some of these simple rules. We can't say we are not Spain, therefore we can't do what they do. We don't have to be Spain, to practice some of these FIFA rules just as we were not Spain when FIFA and AFC were forcing us to do a lot of things their way (i.e, the fiasco last year) ..

by practicing these FIFA rules, we actually minimize tension and arguments and fights.. .that was my point.

I think the hardheadedness and "lajbazi" is on both sides of every fight and argument with our people..

[Ali Chicago]

......
for me, the issue is rather Simple:

Every Club has the Right to Refuse giving players to their National team side, for games that are not on FIFA Calendar.

But here is the catch:

IF Osasuna refuses Nekounam and shojaie for these games, we call Osasuna "professional"... (the fact that these two players weren't called up is not the point, they would not have been allowed to leave even if they were)

IF an Iranian club does the same, we call them "Traitors", "Unprofessional", "Unfair" and all sorts of other 'things'... and of course our TM coach will probably never call players from that club again..

The other issue is canceling League games for NONE-FIFA games. No decent league will ever do that. Daie, of all people, knows that well.. Iranian Clubs should start practicing FIFA Rules, and TM staff should start accepting them..

my 2 cents

Great point about Ossasuna and how if they refuse it is professional and if PP or SS refuse they are "traitors".

I guess we Iranian at times suffer from lack of self confidence and self respect, anything that forigners do must be heck of a lot better than our own. This doesn't mean hating and bashing forigeners all the time. But we as a collective group as soon as someone's name is John or Jim, we have this sense of they must be better than us. My family came to US and they were looking for made in USA Jeans and LEWISE and no matter how hard I tried to explain that 99% of jeans in America is coming for East Asia and American wear the same thing, they didn't want to accept it. Kept looking for Made is USA label on all the Jeans (GAP to Walmart). ;)

Honestly, if Ghotbi hadn't coached in the US or Korea there would have no been no chance he get's considered. The same way that many knowledgable football coaches, like Amir Hossein Payroovani and even PFDC resident Human Afzali didn't get much of a chance to shine.

As for clubs practicing FIFA rules, how can they do thatBehzad Jaan? They are being run by governments and its croonies. The whole PP and SS board is being selected under the direct supervision of Mr. Aliabadi himself.

Tried to Repp you btw for your beautiful and concise post but it said I have to spread around the REPP before giving it to BehzadB again.

[pajamNL]

Do you have to be a Daei hater to not agree with what Daei is doing? I've made my case abundantly clear: I will not give Daei a free pass on everything he does. He has done a lot of very wrong things. But will I let that affect my opinion on him as a coach? No, and if I do only so much that it is relevant.
Notice how people don't say: Daei is a laat, how is he TM coach? But the same criticism was proper for our old coach.
Now, I think Daei does some good things and after I heard his position in Shabe Shishehi I decided to be for him and the team rather than against. It really changed a lot of my perception of him.
But again, Daei hasn't done right here just as much, if not more, than GN.
i'm not willing to start this discussion with you, sorry...

bottom line is that you all are searching for reasons, Daei isn't perfect, but i don't see why we should be negative when he's slowly showing what he can do and TM is improving?

[Ala]

LOL,

Qalenoi now claims that his remarks against Daei was only for Esteghlal's interest!
How in the world what he said will benefit Esteghlal? :whatta:
It was more believable if he said he had to release himself.

Anyways, he claims Esteghlal will become champion 100%


پيش از تمرين امروز آبي پوشان

قلعه نويي: استقلال قطعا قهرمان ليگ مي*شود

خبرگزاري فارس: سرمربي تيم فوتبال استقلال تهران گفت: پس از شكست برابر پگاه گيلان، از قهرماني تيم خود در ليگ برتر مطمئن شدم.


به گزارش خبرگزاري فارس امير قلعه*نويي پيش از تمرين امروز استقلال در جمع خبرنگاران گفت: پرسپوليس و استقلال بعد از هر باخت دچار مسايل حاشيه*اي مي*شوند؛ اما من با بازيكنان صحبت كردم تا از لحاظ روحي رواني در شرايط مطلوبي قرار گيرند و از نظر روحي براي ديدار با سپاهان آماده باشند.
وي افزود: در مسابقه با پگاه از نظر فني از بازيكنان راضي بودم؛ اما در نتيجه*گيري بدشانس بوديم و نتوانستيم تك گل پگاه را جبران كنيم.
قلعه نويي تاكيد كرد: اگر تا پيش از بازي با پگاه 50 درصد به قهرماني استقلال اميدوار بودم، حالا پس از باخت مقابل پگاه اعلام مي*كنم استقلال با شرايطي كه هم اكنون دارد قطعا قهرمان ليگ برتر مي شود.
سرمربي تيم فوتبال استقلال در مورد درگيري لفظي خود با علي دايي در رسانه*ها گفت: علي دايي شب عيد 2 صفحه عليه من مصاحبه كرد، آن*زمان هيچ مشكلي با وي نداشته و كاري هم با او نداشتم؛ اما اكنون به خاطر منافع استقلال پاسخ او را دادم و اگر مسايل شخصي بود، باز هم وارد اين بحث نمي*شدم.
وي ادامه داد: *براي 2 بازي وحيد طالب لو و حسين كاظمي را در تمرينات خود نداشتيم و اگر اين وضعيت ادامه پيدا كند شايد بازيكنان را حتي پس از پايان مسابقات نيز به ما ندهند.
سرمربي استقلال تهران افزود: باشگاه براي بازيكنانش هزينه مي*كند و بايد از اين هزينه بهره*برداري كند، البته معتقدم بين باشگاه*ها و تيم*ها بايد تعامل وجود داشته باشد.
وي با تاكيد بر اين نكته كه ما موظفيم به تيم ملي بازيكن بدهيم؛ تصريح كرد:* اينجا ديگر بحث من و دايي مطرح نيست و موفقيت كشورمان ايران مطرح است؛ اما اگر اين روال در تيم ملي ادامه پيدا كند مجبوريم با كفاشيان جلسه بگذاريم تا به توافق برسيم. من و بازيكنان با تمام وجود در اختيار تيم ملي هستيم؛ اما بايد تعامل داشته باشيم.
قلعه نويي در مورد ميانجيگيري براي آشتي وي با دايي گفت: با هيچكس قهر نبوده و نيستم و باز هم اعلام مي*كنم فقط براي منافع استقلال اين صحبت*ها را انجام دادم.
سرمربي سابق تيم فوتبال در مورد فشردگي مسابقات ليگ كه هر 5 روز يك بار انجام مي شود گفت: تابع فدراسيون هستيم و هر چه تكليف كنند موظف به پذيرش آن هستيم.

[maij]

again, fantastic spoken, truly respect you:bow:

Thanks Pajam jan, I appreciate your kind word

[maij]

I have no argument with the fact that GN should not have blamed his team's loss on this or that... and I certainly don't blame any of this on Daie..

However, We have to accept the fact that a Club CAN deny TM it's players, Just as Europeans and Asian teams do. FIFA gives them that right.

and no, we can not wait for the day that our culture changes to their culture in order to practice some of these simple rules. We can't say we are not Spain, therefore we can't do what they do. We don't have to be Spain, to practice some of these FIFA rules just as we were not Spain when FIFA and AFC were forcing us to do a lot of things their way (i.e, the fiasco last year) ..

by practicing these FIFA rules, we actually minimize tension and arguments and fights.. .that was my point.

I think the hardheadedness and "lajbazi" is on both sides of every fight and argument with our people..


Sorry Sir , I don't quite agree with you there. Compare apple to apples I always say. Selectively picking up certain rules to suit your ideology and interest while ignoring others is not my kind of strategy that I consider as ethical practice.

Being selective on rules is conveniently thinking that PLAYERS SHOULD NOT BE RELEASED to the National team, but a basic human right like wearing a beard or letting women in the stadium is ignored and shoved up peoples noses , whether we like it or not.....Hmmmmmm......

Now , I have loads of other examples but I think Agha Behzad , you are intelligent enough to know many of it.

Well, something I agree with you of course , is that is none of this is Daei's fault. He , like the other sides are victim of circumstances

[BehzadB]

Being selective on rules is conveniently thinking that PLAYERS SHOULD NOT BE RELEASED to the National team, but a basic human right like wearing a beard or letting women in the stadium is ignored and shoved up peoples noses , whether we like it or not.....Hmmmmmm......



Majid jan, I am not following you... what does having a beard have to do with FIFA football rules or wanting our football coaches (TM And League) to use those rules? FIFA rules don't mention Human rights, but they do state that a Club may chose not to release it's player to the National side for games that are not on FIFA Calendar.. It's very simple. We don't need a whole Social Revolution to enforce or accept that rules.

Of course the short comings are immense in our country, and that's why I think in order to fix the ones that ARE fixable , we can enforce (or use) rules that are brought to us by Foreign source (i.e: FIFA)...

I am not sure what GN or any other coach can do with Beard issue or Dress codes or all the other short comings in our country...

based on the Apple with Apple comparison, We have to stop a lot of things in Iran because certain other things are not in place.. For example, we have to stop playing football altogether, even league play, since we don't have the same freedom, culture, rules, conduct or habits of the European countries... Iranian TV has been practically stealing the RIGHTS of the game, without any justifications.. That can't happen in Europe, but that didn't stop us from playing football or attending the games by the thousands..

[LoriMagician]

What a hypocrite, lost any type of respect i had for this fat midge ... such a loser

[Ali Chicago]

i'm not willing to start this discussion with you, sorry...
bottom line is that you all are searching for reasons, Daei isn't perfect, but i don't see why we should be negative when he's slowly showing what he can do and TM is improving?

Pajam Jaan;

Based on the posts I read from you since 2005, I consider you a reasonable person who doesn't see the world in simple black and white. Can you teach many of us who are broadly labled as "Daie hater" (which in its own is a misnomar), what does being negative means in your view?
does it mean to not be negative, we need to say everything he does is great?

Right now, our team goes to play with KSA with a simple 4 day camp in Kish. Do you think this is enough? Uzbakistan game was cancelled based on the head coach's request. Is this being negative or concerned for the TM? Not even playing against a club team?

Now if I say this, am I being negative? I know this isn't fully Daie's domain, it is IFF internationl department, political situation of country, etc. etc. . But as a head coach, doesn't he need to express this concern? So a simple Joe like me who follows TM, realizes the guy is doing his utmost to get best results? Please give me a specific example, in this very specific situation (no friendly game before KSA), what/how we should act in order not be labled as "Daie hater" or "negative"?

I really appreciate and challenge you to think outside the box (pro or anti daie) here and think about this one specific example?

[The Joker]

Qalenoei is such a loser!!!
Daei will break him down and keep his mouth shot!!!

[xoraster]

You make vast claims about me being exposed or a liar or having so many threads on so many sites but when I call you upon proving any of your lies you keep backing up and resorting to your own circular argument.
So either prove what you say, or I will call you what you are: dishonest.


Most people here go to the other site as well and everyone knows who you are. I dont need to prove any links. Anywhere anyone says something remotely negative about GN, you turn up and become personal.

This is an extreme case of agenda and thankfully even counter productive. The amount of people you have directly or in directly insulted because they dont support a charlatan like GN is too many to be counted.

Thats my two cents.

[Ali Chicago]

Qalenoei is such a loser!!!
Daei will break him down and keep his mouth shot!!!

I have a request. Can you use a different words/vocabulary to express your disapproval with Mr. GN. this is not about GN or X or Y or Z. It is about keeping the Hormat of the whoever that in the past, current or future will be the TM head coach.

If we Iranians want to see something differnt in the future, we need to start behaving differently in all levels, from head of the governemnt, IFF, head coach, footballer, to you and I as a simple fan.

Not trying to silence you on not criticizing GN, let's remember Befarma beshin, Beshin and Betamarg all means the same thing. Hope you see my point. We as fans, always have agreements or disagreements when it comes to football and specially coaching. But let's express it in a bit more polite way.

I have seen much worst posts in PFDC to be honest, but those people are in a different plane and that is their style and probably whatever I say won't make a difference. Hope you don't mind my request.

[The Joker]

I have a request. Can you use a different words/vocabulary to express your disapproval with Mr. GN. this is not about GN or X or Y or Z. It is about keeping the Hormat of the whoever that in the past, current or future will be the TM head coach.
If we Iranians want to see something differnt in the future, we need to start behaving differently in all levels, from head of the governemnt, IFF, head coach, footballer, to you and I as a simple fan.
Not trying to silence you on not criticizing GN, let's remember Befarma beshin, Beshin and Betamarg all means the same thing. Hope you see my point. We as fans, always have agreements or disagreements when it comes to football and specially coaching. But let's express it in a bit more polite way.
I have seen much worst posts in PFDC to be honest, but those people are in a different plane and that is their style and probably whatever I say won't make a difference. Hope you don't mind my request.
Very well said. I see your point :)

[maij]

based on the Apple with Apple comparison, We have to stop a lot of things in Iran because certain other things are not in place.. For example, we have to stop playing football altogether, even league play, since we don't have the same freedom, culture, rules, conduct or habits of the European countries... Iranian TV has been practically stealing the RIGHTS of the game, without any justifications.. That can't happen in Europe, but that didn't stop us from playing football or attending the games by the thousands..

Thank you very much..... So calling players from clubs to play in the national team despite the objection of the club coach , should also not stop us playing or watching football either.


I don't really know why you Gentlemen think that calling a player to play for his national team is ILLEGAL. Now , maybe I am wrong and somewhere along the line , I have missed such a ruling. Can someone kindly enlighten me with some proof , article , bylaws of a federation ??

It will be a good reference for many ....

[Siavash]

Ghalenoei is an ANGAL (kerm) to our fotball. He must be send to Ezbakestan where he belongs.

[kaz]

Retraction

[kaz]

Thank you very much..... So calling players from clubs to play in the national team despite the objection of the club coach , should also not stop us playing or watching football either.

I don't really know why you Gentlemen think that calling a player to play for his national team is ILLEGAL. Now , maybe I am wrong and somewhere along the line , I have missed such a ruling. Can someone kindly enlighten me with some proof , article , bylaws of a federation ??

It will be a good reference for many ....

I will look for the exact rule later on today - lord help me find it.

But it's common knowledge that without the consent of the club, players do not have to be released on just any day to their national team. There are Fifa designated dates, though, where they HAVE to release them.

[kaz]

Ghalenoei is an ANGAL (kerm) to our fotball. He must be send to Ezbakestan where he belongs.

Agha Majid, another one from Siavash khan in the above.

[Siavash]

Kaz khan, GN did 3 things that I have a hard time to forgive him.

1) SS failed to attened the AcL 2 season ago

2) His crazy coaching stile caused TM the last Asian cup.

3) His unbelivable criticism of Daei for own failure..

However, if GN make SS champion of IPL, and or Asia I will forgive him, and wish him good luck.

[kaz]

Kaz khan, GN did 3 things that I have a hard time to forgive him.
1) SS failed to attened the AcL 2 season ago
2) His crazy coaching stile caused TM the last Asian cup.
3) His unbelivable criticism of Daei for own failure..
Howeverm, if GN make SS champion of IPL, and or Asia I will forget him, and wish him good luck.

#1 - did you follow the ACL case where it went to CAS - the courts? If you didn't then don't bother to respond.
#2 - his "crazy" coaching style got us to the quarters, and we lost on penalties. The highest we've been since we won it last some 30 years ago was the semis. The quarters are just one round less than the semis. How is one an utter success and the other a complete failure? Granted, we always want to win but winning is never a guarantee.
#3 - his criticisms of Daei are valid. The exoneration of himself, isn't.

Furthermore, the first two points had nothing to do with this issue. GN has already made ESES champs of IPL and Hazfi. If it weren't for him we would not be going to Asia at all. There is no question that most blue fans are happy he is here. They wish he were better behaved but he is a very good young coach. Now, you are going to forgive him when he wins even more? You are the first person that is going to look silly once he achieves any of those you stipulate, I think that will make you dislike him even more.

Your behaviour is objectionable. People have been banned on this site for saying half of what you've said about another coach.

[BehzadB]

I don't really know why you Gentlemen think that calling a player to play for his national team is ILLEGAL. Now , maybe I am wrong and somewhere along the line , I have missed such a ruling. Can someone kindly enlighten me with some proof , article , bylaws of a federation ??

It will be a good reference for many ....

Agha Majid,

where did I say that it is ILLEGAL to call a player to play for his national side? or should I ask, how did you come to the conclusion that I THINK calling a player to TM is ILLEGAL?

All I have said is that FIFA rules allow CLUBS to refuse to give their players to the national team side for games that are not on FIFA calender... but I didn't think stating that simple fact, would become so complicated.


these are some of Daie's comments after Syria game:

وی با تاکید بر اینکه تیم ملی فوتبال کشورمان نمی توانست در مسابقات غرب آسیا از تمام پتانسیل خود استفاده کند افزود: در این مسابقات نمی توانستیم بازیکنان شاغل در لیگ های خارجی را در اختیار داشته باشیم. با توجه به اینکه باشگاههای خارجی از قوانین فیفا تبعیت می کنند نمی توانستیم بازیکنان شاغل در این تیم ها را به خدمت درآوریم. با ترکیبی با بازیکنان جوان با تجربه به میدان رفتیم.

p.s,

thanks to FIFA for that rule, otherwise it sounds like Daie may have called up full squad for these games..lol

[Keshwardoost]

HQ934DKpLZE

Found it on youtube, little bit poor sound but if you concentrate it works ok

[perspolees]

simple fact is that we are human and we take sides and thats that!
Daei cant be fair and clear about a guy that did not invite him.
On the other hand GN cant claim those 2 players were 30 percent of the team esteghlal!!
that said overall I think if Mr. Daei kept the fairness across the board these accusations would not come to be. He gave break to saipa players but did not accept aghili to the camp. On the same note he gave break to the same GN and gave him his players for hazfi cup games.
Would be much easier if they set one fair rule and just follow that!!

[pajamNL]

simple fact is that we are human and we take sides and thats that!
Daei cant be fair and clear about a guy that did not invite him.
On the other hand GN cant claim those 2 players were 30 percent of the team esteghlal!!
that said overall I think if Mr. Daei kept the fairness across the board these accusations would not come to be. He gave break to saipa players but did not accept aghili to the camp. On the same note he gave break to the same GN and gave him his players for hazfi cup games.
Would be much easier if they set one fair rule and just follow that!!
actually i can agree on this

[maij]

Agha Majid,

where did I say that it is ILLEGAL to call a player to play for his national side? or should I ask, how did you come to the conclusion that I THINK calling a player to TM is ILLEGAL?

All I have said is that FIFA rules allow CLUBS to refuse to give their players to the national team side for games that are not on FIFA calender... but I didn't think stating that simple fact, would become so complicated.


Pardon me Behzad Jan , I was referring to Kaz who mentioned the word illegal. He is trying to find the rules stipulating the legality issue.

As for the other part by FIFA , I am well aware of it , but FIFA on the other hand does not force the national teams not to call players , postpone matches in the domestic league or anything such as suggested by some members here. It is up to the federation to decide.

In this neck of the woods (Persian Gulf) the league are easly postponed for any international matches even friendlies. Clubs also have suffered loss of players because of national team commitments, so it is nothing new in such ruling.



these are some of Daie's comments after Syria game:

وی با تاکید بر اینکه تیم ملی فوتبال کشورمان نمی توانست در مسابقات غرب آسیا از تمام پتانسیل خود استفاده کند افزود: در این مسابقات نمی توانستیم بازیکنان شاغل در لیگ های خارجی را در اختیار داشته باشیم. با توجه به اینکه باشگاههای خارجی از قوانین فیفا تبعیت می کنند نمی توانستیم بازیکنان شاغل در این تیم ها را به خدمت درآوریم. با ترکیبی با بازیکنان جوان با تجربه به میدان رفتیم.

p.s,

thanks to FIFA for that rule, otherwise it sounds like Daie may have called up full squad for these games..lol

Well , well..... I think the LOL is that some people cannot be satisfied whatever Daei does. If there are no friendlies or they are cancelled they hit the roof , If he plays the friendlies he is ridiculed.....!!!

I often wonder , if your perfect Team Melli coach is even born...

[kaz]

Pardon me Behzad Jan , I was referring to Kaz who mentioned the word illegal. He is trying to find the rules stipulating the legality issue.

As for the other part by FIFA , I am well aware of it , but FIFA on the other hand does not force the national teams not to call players , postpone matches in the domestic league or anything such as suggested by some members here. It is up to the federation to decide.

In this neck of the woods (Persian Gulf) the league are easly postponed for any international matches even friendlies. Clubs also have suffered loss of players because of national team commitments, so it is nothing new in such ruling.


Majid jan, you seem to have gotten the argument mixed up. It is illegal to force the clubs to give up their players on non-Fifa days. The federation does not have the right to do that. The federation can play matches in the middle of the league, postpone and all that...but they can't make the clubs give their players up. That's what happened with some clubs.

In fact, even for the Olympics clubs were able to not let over-23 players join and prior to a new ruling even U-23. The new ruling said U-23 must attend if selected.

[maij]

Majid jan, you seem to have gotten the argument mixed up. It is illegal to force the clubs to give up their players on non-Fifa days. The federation does not have the right to do that. The federation can play matches in the middle of the league, postpone and all that...but they can't make the clubs give their players up. That's what happened with some clubs.

Fine Kaz jan...like I said I might have missed that ruling.

Can you give me some reference or at least guide me to where I can find it? I googled the subject but nothing came close to this query. So , surely you have the reference somewhere.

[kaz]

Fine Kaz jan...like I said I might have missed that ruling.

Can you give me some reference or at least guide me to where I can find it? I googled the subject but nothing came close to this query. So , surely you have the reference somewhere.

I have had a bit of trouble finding it but I have done so at last. :o

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/regulations_on_the_status_and_transfer_of_players_ en_33410.pdf

There is the PDF which contains such rules. I found the relevant bits on pg 26:


RELEASE OF PLAYERS TO ASSOCIATION TEAMS

Article 1 Principles

1. Clubs are obliged to release their registered players to the
representative teams of the country for which the player is eligible
to play on the basis of his nationality if they are called up by the
association concerned. Any agreement between a player and a
club to the contrary is prohibited.

2. The release of players under the terms of paragraph 1 of this
article is mandatory for matches on dates listed in the coordinated
international match calendar and for all matches for which a duty
to release players exists on the basis of a special decision by the FIFA
Executive Committee.

3. It is not compulsory to release players for matches scheduled on
dates not listed in the coordinated international match calendar.

[Agha Kasra]

Majeed khan there is a rule that the clubs MUST give the player to the NT on FIFA days. Why do you think the olympics got f'ed up? Because CAS ruled that the clubs are allowed to take away their players anytime they want because the Olympics are not on the FIFA-calendar/Not played on FIFA-days

Edit: Nevermind, Kaz beat me to it (although I didn't have the article)

[maij]

I have had a bit of trouble finding it but I have done so at last. :o

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/regulations_on_the_status_and_transfer_of_players_ en_33410.pdf

There is the PDF which contains such rules. I found the relevant bits on pg 26:

Dastet dard nakone Kaz jan....

Now...where does it say it is illegal ?

[maij]

Majeed khan there is a rule that the clubs MUST give the player to the NT on FIFA days. Why do you think the olympics got f'ed up? Because CAS ruled that the clubs are allowed to take away their players anytime they want because the Olympics are not on the FIFA-calendar/Not played on FIFA-days

Edit: Nevermind, Kaz beat me to it (although I didn't have the article)

Actually this rules
2. The release of players under the terms of paragraph 1 of this
article is mandatory for matches on dates listed in the coordinated
international match calendar and for all matches for which a duty
to release players exists on the basis of a special decision by the FIFA Executive Committee.

specifically mentions COORDINATED INTERNATIONAL MATCHES , which leaves quite a bit of legal interpretation. The Olympics definitely falls in this category which is why FIFA got upset by the CAS ruling.

Back to our subject , there is nowhere in the rules that mentions that it is illegal to call players from the club outside FIFA days and this word "Illegal" was my point of argument.

FIFA days was created because of the influx of Latin American players to Europe and the requirement of the National teams to compete in friendly or official matches, which is quite a logical arrangement. However , let us take teams outside Latin America who have no players in Europe , why should they confine themselves to such limitation?

Like I said before , the Persian Gulf Cup that includes 8 countries have been going on since 1970 and up to today it is NOT recognized by FIFA. It does not mean that countries cannot compete in it or clubs can refuse to release players. This tournament is usually held in middle of the season around January - March time and creates problems for the clubs, but nobody seems to mind least of all , the clubs themselves.

As far as WAFF 2008 was concerned , I beleive the IFF had very little choice in this matter. Lebanon was the original host of WAFF but was canceled due to political turmoil and awarded to Iran. The timing was the best that IFF could agree with WAFF given the heavy schedule for all the teams including WC qualifications, Asian Cup 2011 qualifications , ACL and of course the local leagues.

The point is , someone , somewhere has to give in. IFF declared that Team Melli has priority and I believe that Daei has been quite fair in not selecting the likes of Nikbakht , Hosseini and Jabbari , but then again , he needs to win such a tournament and he rightly selected the players that he thought would win him such trophy, if not for anything , it is for the national pride.

[pajamNL]

Pardon me Behzad Jan , I was referring to Kaz who mentioned the word illegal. He is trying to find the rules stipulating the legality issue.

As for the other part by FIFA , I am well aware of it , but FIFA on the other hand does not force the national teams not to call players , postpone matches in the domestic league or anything such as suggested by some members here. It is up to the federation to decide.

In this neck of the woods (Persian Gulf) the league are easly postponed for any international matches even friendlies. Clubs also have suffered loss of players because of national team commitments, so it is nothing new in such ruling.



Well , well..... I think the LOL is that some people cannot be satisfied whatever Daei does. If there are no friendlies or they are cancelled they hit the roof , If he plays the friendlies he is ridiculed.....!!!

I often wonder , if your perfect Team Melli coach is even born...

again , agree 100%

:bow: :bow:

[Ala]

The main difference between Daei and Qalenoi coaching is that Qalenoi
wasted TM resources on almost retired players like Fekri, Ansarian, Enayati
and Roudbarian but Daei did the complete reverse and even temporarily
set aside big name legioners like Kia, Vahid and Karimi to make opportunity
for the youth to shine. Daei's trust of the youth and his investment will pay off.


.

[shayan20]

^^It will pay off.
I believe Daei shouldn't go all for youngsters though. Mostly young players along with some experienced players such as hashemian, Kia and karimi perhaps.
we'll be there in south africa!

[BehzadB]

Well , well..... I think the LOL is that some people cannot be satisfied whatever Daei does. If there are no friendlies or they are cancelled they hit the roof , If he plays the friendlies he is ridiculed.....!!!

I often wonder , if your perfect Team Melli coach is even born...

Wong again, Majid jan..

the "LOL" part was for the idea of having Nekounam, Ando, Hashemian, Kia, Karimi..etc line up for WAFF games.. now, that, would be funny, wouldn't it... well, maybe not for you.. for me, it sure is.

TM would get a better practice if they just showed up and played against a full squad SS or PP or Sepahan.. OR, TM A and B playing Against Each other.. or even better, TM A and B mixed up and playing against each other..

to me, beating on these so called Qatar, Palestine, Syria teams means very little. and I am sorry that I don't share the same excitement as some of the fans here who act as if we have beaten South Korea.. these teams that showed up for WAFF (except our team) are bunch of jokers.. a Mahalee team in Tehran would have done a better job testing our defense and midfield.. but, hey, result is all that matters. we beat qatar 6-1.. but which Qatar team we beat 6-1, is irrelevant for some.. not for me. If TM beats the REAL Qatar team 2-1, I come here and share the joy..

[kaz]

Dastet dard nakone Kaz jan....

Now...where does it say it is illegal ?

Majid jan, in my short time studying law I am yet to see the word "illegal" in a statutory act. What is prohibited is mentioned and to act against that is the implied term: illegal - meaning, against that law.

And what I showed you puts no doubt that to force clubs to give over their players on non-Fifa days is illegal - well, as far as Fifa laws go.

[Ali Chicago]

simple fact is that we are human and we take sides and thats that!
Daei cant be fair and clear about a guy that did not invite him.
On the other hand GN cant claim those 2 players were 30 percent of the team esteghlal!!
that said overall I think if Mr. Daei kept the fairness across the board these accusations would not come to be. He gave break to saipa players but did not accept aghili to the camp. On the same note he gave break to the same GN and gave him his players for hazfi cup games.
Would be much easier if they set one fair rule and just follow that!!


So true and agree about the bolded part.

I talked to someone in Iran who supposedly talked to GN and this is (based on him) how GN sees the situation.

Mojtaba Jabbari is always invited to the TM. This time Daie didn't invite him, because if he did, then SS had three players and SS game would have been postponded as well. I am not saying this is exactly what happened and GN is right. I simply tried to explain his thinking, which is basically he thinks Daie cartefully doing things to undermine his team. So as far as he sees it, there seems to be a clever pattern against him as the head coach of the SS club.
He said people are invited to the TM who aren't a starter in their own club in IPL and then Jabbari this time not invited!!!!

Having said that, I still think, even if this is the case (which still isn't proved anywhere), he needs to suck it in and don't react in the papers. Professionalisem isn't just a word and merely means you get paid for what you do. It requiers certain behavior and in this specific case, means saying or not saying certain things in the papers. GN made a mistake in my opinion to complain about this.

It is up to you and I as someone with our own mind to decide for ourselves, who is partially right or partially wrong or at least keep this in mind, to see if in the future the same patterns will be repeated.

[kaz]

Ali jan, the problem is that a conflict of interest is present with Ali Daei, Saipa and TM. These are the risks when you give people jobs like these. And of course, people will call you out when they think you've abused that trust.

[Ala]

the truth is Daei has stopped the looting and abuses of TM and *some*
whose interests are being damaged are writing negative posts AGAINST HIM
24/7 in the hopes that one day they get the opportunity to loot again.

.

[pajamNL]

the truth is Daei has stopped the looting and abuses of TM and *some*
whose interests are being damaged are writing negative posts AGAINST HIM
24/7 in the hopes that one day they get the opportunity to loot again.
.
:bow: :bow:

damesh garm

[maij]

Majid jan, in my short time studying law I am yet to see the word "illegal" in a statutory act. What is prohibited is mentioned and to act against that is the implied term: illegal - meaning, against that law.

And what I showed you puts no doubt that to force clubs to give over their players on non-Fifa days is illegal - well, as far as Fifa laws go.


Incidentally, I spent half of my professional life going through contracts and all my professional life adhering to various laws , although I am not a lawyer.

in simple term illegal means not according to or authorized by law. So , if there is a law specifically preventing the national team from calling the player , then YES it is illegal. But this is not the case.

OK....I can understand that there could be a Grey area in such interpretation but illegal act is always punishable (well just about always:D) , so if this IFF act was illegal , then Ghalnoei and Esteghlal would only get credit and have the sympathy of the fans if they go to the court and prove it, else their claim is just trash talk for public consumption and a refuge for their defeat against Pegah. This is from legal point.

From sporting point , I think it is quite ridiclous to shoulder blames on others. Of course , Ghalenoei is not the only one in Iran who does that, nearly the whole country have such mentality. The one that is a bit different is Ghotbi....and by the time he gets acclimatize in the society , he might very will join the rest.

[kaz]

Incidentally, I spent half of my professional life going through contracts and all my professional life adhering to various laws , although I am not a lawyer.

in simple term illegal means not according to or authorized by law. So , if there is a law specifically preventing the national team from calling the player , then YES it is illegal. But this is not the case.

OK....I can understand that there could be a Grey area in such interpretation but illegal act is always punishable (well just about always:D) , so if this IFF act was illegal , then Ghalnoei and Esteghlal would only get credit and have the sympathy of the fans if they go to the court and prove it, else their claim is just trash talk for public consumption and a refuge for their defeat against Pegah. This is from legal point.

From sporting point , I think it is quite ridiclous to shoulder blames on others. Of course , Ghalenoei is not the only one in Iran who does that, nearly the whole country have such mentality. The one that is a bit different is Ghotbi....and by the time he gets acclimatize in the society , he might very will join the rest.

You don't seem to understand Majid jan, read point 3 in the Article 1:

"3. It is not compulsory to release players for matches scheduled on
dates not listed in the coordinated international match calendar. "

So, if GN was allowed to he could have not let his players go. From the facts pertaining to the scenario, GN was not allowed to and hence angry because he had to lose players right before an important away game.

To have compulsorily acquired Esteghlal's players in this time-frame is illegal. There is no grey area here that is left for debate. The law is as black and white as it can be.

The laws I sourced show under which provisions a country CAN compulsory require a player to play for his country. This tournament was not one of them.

No statute goes and writes "it is illegal to do x" because then they have to realise all possible scenarios. Instead, they input when scenarios are legal, hence anything outside of those prescribed are illegal. For example, this (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/wa/consol_act/soga1895128/) is "Sale of Goods Act" in WA. An act that, of course, is used day by day for all sales of goods. Throughout the whole act the word "illegal" is not even mentioned ONCE. Even in Contracts, statements of legality aren't made - unless there is some outlying stipulation. i.e. "only give my daughter the house when she becomes of legal age".

ADD: Yes, GN probably does have grounds to appeal to Fifa. Whether he decides to take action or not, it doesn't change the legality of what IFF has done. There is no legal point that would make their case "trash". I think, though, that if GN does go ahead with it he will become unpopular with the powers to be.

[Ali Chicago]

the truth is Daei has stopped the looting and abuses of TM and *some*
whose interests are being damaged are writing negative posts AGAINST HIM
24/7 in the hopes that one day they get the opportunity to loot again.
.

This is totally uncalled for. Another example of seeing the world black and white. So whoever supports Daie is the good guy, and whoever does't support Daie is theif, unpathriothic. Really sad to see a grown man, sees the world in such a simple terms.

I wish world was that simple.

Pajam, I have a huge respect for you and really disappointed to see you jump on the bandwagon of people like Ala. Specially you as a staff, should stand up against slandering of one member by other in public forums.

What do I (or any other critics of Mr. Daie) looted from TM? When did we do that? Truly shameful. So sad to see, PFDC moderators as the quote goes in farsi " Sangha ra bastand and sagha ra raha kardand". No pun intended, or as it goes in Farsi, dar masal monaghesheh nist.

[kaz]

This is totally uncalled for. Another example of seeing the world black and white. So whoever supports Daie is the good guy, and whoever does't support Daie is theif, unpathriothic. Really sad to see a grown man, sees the world in such a simple terms.
I wish world was that simple.
Pajam, I have a huge respect for you and really disappointed to see you jump on the bandwagon of people like Ala. Specially you as a staff, should stand up against slandering of one member by other in public forums.
What do I (or any other critics of Mr. Daie) looted from TM? When did we do that? Truly shameful. So sad to see, PFDC moderators as the quote goes in farsi " Sangha ra bastand and sagha ra raha kardand". No pun intended, or as it goes in Farsi, dar masal monaghesheh nist.

Don't take offense Ali jan. Don't let Ala enjoy it. Can you believe the same person who wrote what you just quoted also made this statement, in the same thread!


majid jan,
there are some people around here that cannot engage in civil discussions
and soon resort to slander and personal attacks. it's better not to waste
time discussing things with them as it usually goes nowhere.
.

As I said before, it is ironic who is accusing who.

[Siavash]

The main difference between Daei and Qalenoi coaching is that Qalenoi
wasted TM resources on almost retired players like Fekri, Ansarian, Enayati
and Roudbarian but Daei did the complete reverse and even temporarily
set aside big name legioners like Kia, Vahid and Karimi to make opportunity
for the youth to shine. Daei's trust of the youth and his investment will pay off.
.
:bow: :bow:
Daei is the man.

[zzgloo]

True...
Ali Daei has given chances to more prospects than any other coach !
Ali Daei is going to be the head coach of TM in up-comeing WCQ games,and needs to be supported..
But, An honest fan, can not simply forget,he has been the coach of the 11 th ranked club in Iranian league , and with only two years experince, and no coaching training !,with questionable attitude...................
We will support TM, but we are no fools !!

[maij]

You don't seem to understand Majid jan, read point 3 in the Article 1:

"3. It is not compulsory to release players for matches scheduled on
dates not listed in the coordinated international match calendar. "

So, if GN was allowed to he could have not let his players go. From the facts pertaining to the scenario, GN was not allowed to and hence angry because he had to lose players right before an important away game.

To have compulsorily acquired Esteghlal's players in this time-frame is illegal. There is no grey area here that is left for debate. The law is as black and white as it can be.

The laws I sourced show under which provisions a country CAN compulsory require a player to play for his country. This tournament was not one of them.

No statute goes and writes "it is illegal to do x" because then they have to realise all possible scenarios. Instead, they input when scenarios are legal, hence anything outside of those prescribed are illegal. For example, this (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/wa/consol_act/soga1895128/) is "Sale of Goods Act" in WA. An act that, of course, is used day by day for all sales of goods. Throughout the whole act the word "illegal" is not even mentioned ONCE. Even in Contracts, statements of legality aren't made - unless there is some outlying stipulation. i.e. "only give my daughter the house when she becomes of legal age".

ADD: Yes, GN probably does have grounds to appeal to Fifa. Whether he decides to take action or not, it doesn't change the legality of what IFF has done. There is no legal point that would make their case "trash". I think, though, that if GN does go ahead with it he will become unpopular with the powers to be.


Well, I don't share your opinion on the legality issue and excuse me for not taking your word for it.

So...the next step is the court of law. No point me and you arguing about it. If it is illegal , then SS and Ghalenoei should go to the court ( or should have done that , before the tournament started).

[kaz]

Well, I don't share your opinion on the legality issue and excuse me for not taking your word for it.

And why is my word not enough? The issue here is not of opinion but of fact. The legality of the issue is not for question. It is in black and white.


So...the next step is the court of law. No point me and you arguing about it. If it is illegal , then SS and Ghalenoei should go to the court ( or should have done that , before the tournament started).

Yes, they should if they want justice and fairness. Before the tourney they should have not given their players and furthermore they should prove that the IFF officially forced them.

Personally, I don't think that likely to happen. Although, that is somewhat unrelated to the question at hand. You wanted the law, I showed you the law.

[maij]

And why is my word not enough? The issue here is not of opinion but of fact. The legality of the issue is not for question. It is in black and white.

Azizam , I am saying that I don't agree on the interpretation of illegal in the clause in question. I actually wrote a much longer post to argue my point , but to be honest , it is beyond the scope of this discussion and rather boring to read. Law is always a boring subject:D




Yes, they should if they want justice and fairness. Before the tourney they should have not given their players and furthermore they should prove that the IFF officially forced them.

Personally, I don't think that likely to happen. Although, that is somewhat unrelated to the question at hand. You wanted the law, I showed you the law.

Yes you showed me the law and as I said , I could not find the illegal or unlawful part in it. That is why we have courts and lawyers. Perhaps GN & Esteghlal know that they have a losing case.

[The-Red]

True...
Ali Daei has given chances to more prospects than any other coach !
Ali Daei is going to be the head coach of TM in up-comeing WCQ games,and needs to be supported..
But, An honest fan, can not simply forget,he has been the coach of the 11 th ranked club in Iranian league , and with only two years experince, and no coaching training !,with questionable attitude...................
We will support TM, but we are no fools !!

Very Well said.

[Siavash]

Daei Shirehhhhhhhhhhhh

[kaz]

Azizam , I am saying that I don't agree on the interpretation of illegal in the clause in question. I actually wrote a much longer post to argue my point , but to be honest , it is beyond the scope of this discussion and rather boring to read. Law is always a boring subject:D

Yes you showed me the law and as I said , I could not find the illegal or unlawful part in it. That is why we have courts and lawyers. Perhaps GN & Esteghlal know that they have a losing case.

Azizam, we have courts and lawyers for difficult scenarios and more complex legal questions. I am, myself, a couple years off my own Law degree. The question here is so simple that it's obvious the legality is not an issue more your resistance to reason and logic. I reiterate, as a matter of law it is as black and white as you can get. The fact that you even asked "where does it say illegal" shows your legal expertise is very limited.

Apple the facts to the law. The law says clubs are not under any obligation to give players unless on a Fifa date. What happened was that Esteghlal had it's players taken on a non-Fifa day.

In fact, what makes it worse is that the IFF has it's own policy that is not in sync with Fifa's. They have a rule where if 3 players are selected postponement is viable for that club. Such a thing does not exist in Fifa.

But begzarim, I don't want to lecture and I know if I brought in 100s of acts or court citings you won't change your mind.

BTW, did you watch Navad? Bijan Zolfagharnasab was talking about this same thing.

[maij]

Azizam, we have courts and lawyers for difficult scenarios and more complex legal questions.

As a law student , you should know that courts of law are held for any dispute such as a verbal quarrel between two neighbors to a serious crime like serial killer. The courts have never been exclusive to what you term as " Complex"


Apple the facts to the law. The law says clubs are not under any obligation to give players unless on a Fifa date. What happened was that Esteghlal had it's players taken on a non-Fifa day.

1) Assuming that you and Ghalenoei knew it was "Illegal" to release the players , why did they release them in the first place?
2) What about training sessions and camps by Team Melli , which are not held in FIFA days , why are the clubs releasing the players ?



In fact, what makes it worse is that the IFF has it's own policy that is not in sync with Fifa's. They have a rule where if 3 players are selected postponement is viable for that club. Such a thing does not exist in Fifa.


Because FIFA caters for local differences in the regulations. It does not force an association on how many clubs is in the league or the promotion policy or number of foreigners and many other policies.



But begzarim, I don't want to lecture and I know if I brought in 100s of acts or court citings you won't change your mind.



Trust me..... I will if I agree with its interpretation or I find credible proof.



BTW, did you watch Navad? Bijan Zolfagharnasab was talking about this same thing.

So what ? Zolfagharnasab is a coach of a club and he naturally looks t his own interest, He is also not a legal expert and the same applies to him. If he thinks it is illegal , then their is a court that handles such matters.

[kaz]

As a law student , you should know that courts of law are held for any dispute such as a verbal quarrel between two neighbors to a serious crime like serial killer. The courts have never been exclusive to what you term as " Complex"

Of course they are not exclusive. However, when such terms are so easily readible things like this rarely go to court. And if they are the magistrates/judges are quick to judge. Just because something can go to court doesn't make it "debatable" in the sense that it's uncertain.



1) Assuming that you and Ghalenoei knew it was "Illegal" to release the players , why did they release them in the first place?
2) What about training sessions and camps by Team Melli , which are not held in FIFA days , why are the clubs releasing the players ?

IFF either doesn't know or doesn't care. They have their own system where you are only given postponement if 3 players are missing from your squad. That's what Esteghlal was subjected to.

Clubs don't have to release players at any time, training or otherwise unless a Fifa approved date is on the horizon. There are also laws as to when a club has to release a player (certain days prior) and other relevant tidbits.



Because FIFA caters for local differences in the regulations. It does not force an association on how many clubs is in the league or the promotion policy or number of foreigners and many other policies.

Irrelevant and a digression. Fifa does have rules, however, for when players can or cannot be released for international duty. They apply to everyone, no local difference is regarded.



Trust me..... I will if I agree with its interpretation or I find credible proof.

You were cited the law and you still cannot 'interpret', even though I gave you the article. If you cannot "understand" it, it is much different to it not being there. Clearly, you have pretty limited experience with statute law. As I said before, the fact that you were asking "where does it say illegal" is a dead giveaway.



So what ? Zolfagharnasab is a coach of a club and he naturally looks t his own interest, He is also not a legal expert and the same applies to him. If he thinks it is illegal , then their is a court that handles such matters.

For someone so heavily involved in a football site, it is amazing that you do not know the rules regarding players and their release for international football. Dr. Z is a coach, Ghotbi is a coach, GN is a coach ...regardless, they are pointing to a law that is there in black and white. A law most leagues in the world abide by. Does that matter to you or do you want to keep ignoring what everybody else acknowledges?

This convo isn't going to go far. You asked for the law, and I showed you it and even explained it to you in the simplest way possible. Yet you still deny it's existence. You can ask for a pen and I can give you a pen, but when you keep thinking the pen is a spoon then I can't help you any further.

[maij]

Sorry ....I have no more interest in discussing this.

[Siavash]

Sorry ....I have no more interest in discussing this.

:bow: :bow: :rofl: :rofl:

[sullakh]

Of course they are not exclusive. However, when such terms are so easily readible things like this rarely go to court. And if they are the magistrates/judges are quick to judge. Just because something can go to court doesn't make it "debatable" in the sense that it's uncertain.




IFF either doesn't know or doesn't care. They have their own system where you are only given postponement if 3 players are missing from your squad. That's what Esteghlal was subjected to.

Clubs don't have to release players at any time, training or otherwise unless a Fifa approved date is on the horizon. There are also laws as to when a club has to release a player (certain days prior) and other relevant tidbits.




Irrelevant and a digression. Fifa does have rules, however, for when players can or cannot be released for international duty. They apply to everyone, no local difference is regarded.




You were cited the law and you still cannot 'interpret', even though I gave you the article. If you cannot "understand" it, it is much different to it not being there. Clearly, you have pretty limited experience with statute law. As I said before, the fact that you were asking "where does it say illegal" is a dead giveaway.




For someone so heavily involved in a football site, it is amazing that you do not know the rules regarding players and their release for international football. Dr. Z is a coach, Ghotbi is a coach, GN is a coach ...regardless, they are pointing to a law that is there in black and white. A law most leagues in the world abide by. Does that matter to you or do you want to keep ignoring what everybody else acknowledges?

This convo isn't going to go far. You asked for the law, and I showed you it and even explained it to you in the simplest way possible. Yet you still deny it's existence. You can ask for a pen and I can give you a pen, but when you keep thinking the pen is a spoon then I can't help you any further.

where do i get my persianfootball spoon? i mean pen