Negative forces in Iran's football.

[maij]

The negative forces in Iran’s football is reaching new heights , fuelled by people with personal grudges and a hungry media that thrives on Hashiye which sells them more copies of their tabloids.

It is becoming a daily ritual for coaches or players to speak publically against each other, disregarding the very basics of professional behavior and ethics. Perhaps the most flagrant of today’s such rhetoric is by Marzaban who has lambasted the good work of Afshin Ghotbi and denied him the credit for the success of Perspolis championship, not to mention the idiotic remarks by Nasser Hejazi about Team Melli.

The fact of the matter is these unprofessional behaviors will continue and flourish, if the readers continue taking interest in it. With a media that has hardly known for ethical values and objectivity, this trend could very well affect the future success of Iran in Club and international level and plant the seeds of disharmony and disaccord.

The hostilities shown towards fellow professionals normally start from those who have failed to achieve the grade or have been involved in personal conflicts. The media normally targets these people for statements hence fueling the clash and hostilities. It goes without saying, that we the fans, must be wise enough to understand the motives and stop supporting individuals, newspapers and groups who target people seeking their own interest rather than the national interest. Of course all such individuals claim national interest forgetting that unity, confidentiality and support is the essence that national interest is based on. Far from saying they are perfect, players, coaches and administrators will commit mistakes and error in judgments, but that does not qualify those with agendas to start bashing those hard working people.

Fan’s knowledge and education is part and parcel of the total success of football and we have to be careful not to be dragged into personal conflicts and take sides.

[Lorestani]

Very well put! I agree with what you said and have a very low opinion of Iranian tabloids, too.

However, we should also be aware that the national interest you referred to is not a given or fixed thing. Rather it is the product of debates, discussions and sometimes even disagreements. Ideally, these debates should involve as many as possible and should have a constructive character. Without letting destructive elements gaining the upper hand, I deem this the most fruitful way of defining the national interest and trying to improve the situation of Iranian football.

[maij]

Very well put! I agree with what you said and have a very low opinion of Iranian tabloids, too.

However, we should also be aware that the national interest you referred to is not a given or fixed thing. Rather it is the product of debates, discussions and sometimes even disagreements. Ideally, these debates should involve as many as possible and should have a constructive character. Without letting destructive elements gaining the upper hand, I deem this the most fruitful way of defining the national interest and trying to improve the situation of Iranian football.


Thanks Agha Lorestani.....

We need to be wise enough to distinguish between constructive dialog and criticisms , and vendettas. Marzaban and Hejazi statement today was the latter.

We can not and should not stop debate (within the bounds of decency and respect) despite our differing views. Disagreements will exist and debates will go on forever as long as football is played, however , those ones that serves individual interests or have personal agendas must not be given any credit and attention.

[djmo]

Great post as always Maij jaan. No one can quite do it like you with such lucid and clear posts ... you're a true patriot.

Now to your post, I agree wholeheartedly, our football is a representation of our politics and culture, and they both suck right now and reek of low-class behaviour, so our football will represent that. Professionalism does not have a proper self-definition in Iranian culture right now, nor does Justice and Truth, sadly. We all must work hard to change that

[maij]

Great post as always Maij jaan. No one can quite do it like you with such lucid and clear posts ... you're a true patriot.

Now to your post, I agree wholeheartedly, our football is a representation of our politics and culture, and they both suck right now and reek of low-class behaviour, so our football will represent that. Professionalism does not have a proper self-definition in Iranian culture right now, nor does Justice and Truth, sadly. We all must work hard to change that

Sharmandeh ....


True...football is very much the reflection of society and politics. Educated fans can play a role in the progress of football.

[Persian Panther]

Lets face it its Iran and lot of people talk rubbish ... Professionalisim in Iran does not mean much ... People dont know what professionalisim is to start with. This is the problem we have in all levels of society not just football.

The society as a whole is decades behind the west and it will take a long time for things to change. Change should come from higher Level and that wont happen any time soon.

Look at the way how reporters ask silly questions from players in IPL!!! Its just mad. No one else does it.

Look at how the whole country is run by one man with full power ... Thats the problem, no democracy, no freedom, every one is in there to benefit them selves.

I dont expect much more from out players and coaches because to them its normal to be like this and say what ever they want... its like kids having a go at each other.

[Ala]

Lets face it its Iran and lot of people talk rubbish ... Professionalisim in Iran does not mean much ... People dont know what professionalisim is to start with. This is the problem we have in all levels of society not just football.
The society as a whole is decades behind the west and it will take a long time for things to change. Change should come from higher Level and that wont happen any time soon.
Look at the way how reporters ask silly questions from players in IPL!!! Its just mad. No one else does it.
Look at how the whole country is run by one man with full power ... Thats the problem, no democracy, no freedom, every one is in there to benefit them selves.
I dont expect much more from out players and coaches because to them its normal to be like this and say what ever they want... its like kids having a go at each other.


talking about lack of professionalism in iran, check this video out.

u cannot see anything like this anywhere else in the world!
and this happens in a country whose prez is a ph.d. in transportation engineering !!

DE5_UhSlUIU

.

[Kaveh]

talking about lack of professionalism in iran, check this video out.

u cannot see anything like this anywhere else in the world!
and this happens in a country whose prez is a ph.d. in transportation engineering !!

DE5_UhSlUIU

.
in dige akharesh bood :khak:

[Mr.Click]

u cannot see anything like this anywhere else in the world!
and this happens in a country whose prez is a ph.d. in transportation engineering !!
so he claims... rather received as a gift on a silver platter from India..

[KC McElroy]

Yes, these are trying times in our soccer indeed.

[Persian Panther]

talking about lack of professionalism in iran, check this video out.

u cannot see anything like this anywhere else in the world!
and this happens in a country whose prez is a ph.d. in transportation engineering !!

DE5_UhSlUIU

.


Ala, mate this is mad .... no brainer .....:rofl:

[becheabadani]

talking about lack of professionalism in iran, check this video out.

u cannot see anything like this anywhere else in the world!
and this happens in a country whose prez is a ph.d. in transportation engineering !!

DE5_UhSlUIU

.
:rofl: :rofl: :khak: :khak: :khak: :khak:

[zzgloo]

Another quality Thread from our majid.................

although what is said is totaly true....but I do not beleive it is as bad as we think !, it may not be civilized or progresive, yet it is our culture....

When westerners have a dialoge, they conduct it in a manner in which they take time, and one listens to the other's opinion,and in his turn he states his...........
But this is not how it works in our culture, as we seem to simonteniously state our opinions.......
I have often heard from american friends of mine whom believe we iranian seem to be fighting when we talk to each other.....this may be ture among the educated class as well...unless we had been asimilated by another culture.
One should not reject such behavior all together, and just brand it as uncivilized and avoid it...specialy if one is himself iranian......
what ever it is, it is the truth among millions of fellow country men....and it is not just in football.....
But the good news is, that it is not as offensive or as distruptive, as it may be to us who leave out side of Iran.......as our fellow country men in iran, have learned to give it its proper weight, and are used to it.

We Iranians who live out side, and have become multicultural....although may have less tolerance with such attitude, and may critisize our own culture time to time..........yet, we ourseleves have problem with our own Identity !

[gol_kuchik]

If you all remember, there was a huge controversy between Bonacic and
Navid Kia as well. Suddenly Bonacic was the worst coach ever, all credit
was due to Sepahan management and some could not wait for him to leave.
Well he left and Sepahan did not achieve a single mile stone with arguably
even a stronger team than last year and obviously same management.
What is sad, is no one even says he was a good coach.
I think the ultimate tester of everything is time.

Similarly, As much as people put down Branko, until such time that we qualify for WC with one game still in hand, or have any of our football team be it
the u23 u19 u17 or TM win at continental level, a fair minded individual must
give him credit for TM results. Remember this is the same Portugal team,
with same coach and same Ronaldo and Deco that scored 2 against us that
beat Turkey and Czecks with exact same goal differential!

As for Ghotbi, I really hope Marzban and Estili are right.

But Maij jan the ultimate test is in the results. Whether it is Branko, or Qotbi
or Bonacic they have set a performance standard. When someone questions
their achievement, that somone can only be taken seriously if he can do
equally as well or better when he is in charge. In case of Hejazi, it only
made him look like a fool. As we say in Persian:

"If you are a doctor, cure your own illness first"

[maij]

Thanks Bahram And gol Kuchick agha.

If there is something I wish to add , I would say that the Persian culture is not bad as it may seems. We are talking about a culture that had Human Rights over 2000 years ago while some nations did not even have a language or a country. We have great tradition in all walks of life, we have potential in everything and can compete with the best....I am not suggesting we overhaul the culture , but merely indicating and warning that certain undesirable elements can creep in any culture and people should be aware NOT to be driven by these negative forces or elements.

I was very touched by the Syrian journalist article (http://persianfootball.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1018788#post1018788) about the upcoming match with Team Melli on Saturday. The jest of his words is that the Syrian fans must wholeheartedly support their team and distant themselves from the element of blame at this crucial stage. In Iran , it seems that every time a player or a coach achieves certain amount of success , his critics and his opposition multiply and it seems that those undesirable element want to bring him down.

About Afshin Ghotbi , Agha Gol Kuchick , it is not about if he was 100% or 20% responsible for PP championship , it is about how he was treated and being treated that bothers me. YES, he had issues with Marzaban and Estili , this can happen in any team , company or even in our own homes....but publicly going on record to discredit him in such a manner , is the work of a disturbed person and people need to be aware of such acts.

We need to set a decency line , we need emphasis on civility and respect for each other despite our differences. The western culture have gone a long way in this , it is by no means a shame to learn from them.

[Unity]

Great post Maij jaan. Its about time!!!! j/k

I think your post say it all pal. Its all about money, power and jealousy. Unfortunately the economic battle in iran is not helping the situation either. It will continue to get worse until something major politically happens.

[Ali Chicago]

The negative forces in Iran’s football is reaching new heights , fuelled by people with personal grudges and a hungry media that thrives on Hashiye which sells them more copies of their tabloids.

It is becoming a daily ritual for coaches or players to speak publically against each other, disregarding the very basics of professional behavior and ethics. Perhaps the most flagrant of today’s such rhetoric is by Marzaban who has lambasted the good work of Afshin Ghotbi and denied him the credit for the success of Perspolis championship, not to mention the idiotic remarks by Nasser Hejazi about Team Melli.

The fact of the matter is these unprofessional behaviors will continue and flourish, if the readers continue taking interest in it. With a media that has hardly known for ethical values and objectivity, this trend could very well affect the future success of Iran in Club and international level and plant the seeds of disharmony and disaccord.

The hostilities shown towards fellow professionals normally start from those who have failed to achieve the grade or have been involved in personal conflicts. The media normally targets these people for statements hence fueling the clash and hostilities. It goes without saying, that we the fans, must be wise enough to understand the motives and stop supporting individuals, newspapers and groups who target people seeking their own interest rather than the national interest. Of course all such individuals claim national interest forgetting that unity, confidentiality and support is the essence that national interest is based on. Far from saying they are perfect, players, coaches and administrators will commit mistakes and error in judgments, but that does not qualify those with agendas to start bashing those hard working people.

Fan’s knowledge and education is part and parcel of the total success of football and we have to be careful not to be dragged into personal conflicts and take sides.




I read your post and if you dont' mind I share my two cents. I beleive what you see as a problem, exists every where.

You are very close to the football and I am somewhat surprised by your claim that "negative element in Iranian football come to a new high". Football wise our TM performance is worst but behavior wise both players and coachs have come a long way compared to 5 years ago even.

Let me give you a couple of example:

Remember how the selection or not selection of Khodad Azizi was hunting Cheero During 2002 WC campaign?

Remember how fans treated Hashemi Nasab when he went to ESES from PP? Compare that with Vahedy nikbakt transfer to PP from SS more recently (while not very good, still much better than Hashemi Nasab issue).

Remember how in WC 98, under Farahani or Mostafavi Ivitch was removed after one loss to A.C. Roma (7-1) less than 2 weeks before the WC final in 1998 in France?
Why you go far, remember Amir GN, how he behaved in 2006 and how he behaves now?

In Italy fans kill each other, in Spain they dress up as Monekies to insult black players, Karim Bagheri goes to Armenia Bilefiield and shows up half an hour late to the practice. This was our football.

While our football is ages behind the true professional football (and even in the true professional football these issues of money, power hunger back stabbing is plenty), we are progressing.

I think part of this may goes back to the notion of support in your view. All these issues that you listed, money, power hunger, back stabbing exist in every where. Newspapers reap coaches and teams apart since they want to sell papers. Coaches know that, players know that, fans know that too. Everyone does his thing.

What does the support means to you, saying nothing ? or seeing things that doesn't work (in someone's opinion) and still remining silent?

Here in US that everyone says is Imperilisem and this and that, at the height of the Iraq invasion on the very first day of US attack, I saw it with my own eyes that students marched against the war and swear at Bush. Bush (or even hard core war supporters which were in huge majority at that time) didnt' expect, minority remains silent or line up and fully support.

My point is this kind of Polemic, conflict, clash of personalities is very natural and tolerated in more advanced societies. I beleive one can be supportive and still criticize this or that. In west where I have lived, this is totally accepted and is a matter of fact thing. This kind of attitude make the country stronger in their belief and there is proof for it as well. Remind you of Gore vs. Bush where a very disputed, contraversial election was resolved the looser didn't ask for poeple to coem to the streert and bloodshed. Compare that to recent election in less developed African countries.

However in certian less developed countries, where in the past the motto was Khoda Shah Meehan (Note Shah/king as a person was above Meehan/country) and more recently everyone was expected to be in the Khat emam "follower of Khomeini's path", criticizem is seen as a bad thing. It is seen as nagging, being negative etc. etc.

We can preach and wish for an ideal society where everybody is good and everything is good and no conflict (liek the movie pleasentville if you saw it), but that is just utopia not reality.

I admit that some of these stuff is negative, but some of it is. See if everyone after the game against UAE in Tehran would have said "thank you mr. Daie, great job, keep playing 4-2-3-1 or whatever", is that what would be an ideal response in your opinion?

Gist of the issue is, disagreement, and civilized conflict and clash of opinions is the motor for the progress of human society and it is unavoidable. We can preach as much as we want, it won't go away.

[Amir-Che]

in dige akharesh bood :khak:


in dige akharesh bood Baraye emroz! ;)

[zzgloo]

When an american sees a rotten apple....he says : i have had better apples before.............
As we iranians say : this apple stinks !
.................................................. ..........both replies have nothing to do with level of education......................it is a cultural thing !
.................................................. ................................................

[Nokhodi]

When an american sees a rotten apple....he says : i have had better apples before.............
As we iranians say : this apple stinks !
.................................................. ..........both replies have nothing to do with level of education......................it is a cultural thing !
.................................................. ................................................

Vaghean gol gofti. Perfectly said. And if we have a good apple, we say it was the most delicous, red, juicy apple ever.