What shd be IFF's TOPMOST priority, TM or CLUBS ?

[Doctor DOOM]

NOTE: GIVEN PRESENT CIRCUMSTANCES OF TM AND CLUB SEASON.
this is not some GENERIC question. it is specifically pointed at TM's upcoming games and club season's last weeks.



Shd the IFF make the decision based on the good of TM or Clubs.

Coz at this moment, they can not find a solution that benefits BOTH !
They can either postpone the season’s final 3 weeks to the other side of TM’s WCQ’s, thus causing a gap of 40 days in the club season. And risk the ire and anger of club owners and management.
Or
They can pack the last 6-7 weeks of club season to such density that clubs would have 2 games per week. And we’re not talking about one or two weeks like this. It is the last 6-7 games ! and run the risk of en-mass injuries and severe fatigue ( much like what hit us at WC 06 ) on the players.


So you see there’s no easy decision. But IFF has to make a decision and it is bound to hurt one side more than the other.
Now, which side shd they keep at heart?
Which side shd be their TOPMOST priority ?

============

and plz refrain from comparisons with european clubs, coz if you're connected to REALITY, you'd know we are NOT at that level of organization, professionalism or fitness. so it is utterly useless comparing what europeans do in such situations.

[Adesor Vafaseya]

GOOD THREAD!

I voted CLUBS are most priority! Simply because IMO the basis of our football needs to be fixed and that starts at CLUB level.

a stronger IPL, with facilities supports the quality of TM
facilities such as:

- Good Training Ground, GYM
- Good medical, and physiotherpeutical facilities
- Youth Porgramme WITH exclusive youth training grounds
- Club Stadiums (not neccessary, but preferable)
- Summer Coaching Classes for IPL assisstant coaches, Goalkeeper coaches etc...

to achive this IFF and Tarbiayat Badani can do the following:

- Finacial aid, in terms of goverment Bonds, payable back to IFF/Government with a maturity date of 5-10 years, that would give the clubs enough chance to get a return out of the aids (including failure clauses that need to be discussed between the clubs and IFF)

If the beasement of IPL is fixed then the TM would be stronger. Without a strong league we will have the same sort of TM that we always had... "a seasonal team" strong and weak.... winning one game, failing the other etc etc...

TM will be the same for the next years as it was in the last years UPs and DOWNs, no matter who caoches it
The basement lies whithin IPL, and that needs to be fixed !

[hadi_ak]

I say TM but I will vote for the clubs for a sole reason. It is these clubs who are producing these players to play for Team Mali so I think that their position should not be overlooked. We are starting to see clubs in Iran making the transition from semi-pro to professional teams like Sepahan, Saipa are leading by example ……

I think until the time that we bring up our players in cotton wool we will not be successful. At the end of the day even if TM makes it to the world cup they have to play a game every 3 or 4 days so why can’t the players start practicing this from right now???? when are these players going to learn to be professional????

[Ala]

this poll assumes that one is more important than the other.
in fact, they are both important and there is a place in the middle where both must meet.
TM planning should not destroy the league and league planning should not destroy TM.

Leagues (IPL and Azadegan) should be run by the clubs (Football Union)
and TM is run by IFF. IFF should not interfere in the operation of the leagues.

It is the negotiations between the clubs and IFF that should determine our football schedule.
At least this is how things are done in the more advanced footballing nations and we must follow same.

[Doctor DOOM]

adesy jan, I really didnt see a need to "spell things out" for ppl.
for them to see this is directed at the SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES WE ARE IN RIGHT NOW w regard to TM's games and club season.
I did NOT think ppl would take it as a GENERIC & GENERAL question that applies to all situations !!

really, did I have to spell it out?
wasnt the main text enough to convey the purpose of the thread ?

did anyone even READ it before voting ?
:(

extremely disappointed at the level of attention by our members !!!!!!
:(

[Adesor Vafaseya]

adesy jan, I really didnt see a need to "spell things out" for ppl.
for them to see this is directed at the SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES WE ARE IN RIGHT NOW w regard to TM's games and club season.
I did NOT think ppl would take it as a GENERIC & GENERAL question that applies to all situations !!

really, did I have to spell it out?
wasnt the main text enough to convey the purpose of the thread ?

did anyone even READ it before voting ?
:(

extremely disappointed at the level of attention by our members !!!!!!
:(


DD I am sorry but did you EDIT your post after you first wrote it?

Cause I see you just changed the first post... if you are referring to circumstances now, then my vote would go to TM!

[RahmanRezai]

TM upcoming games are much more important than any IPL games right now IMO.

[Doctor DOOM]

DD I am sorry but did you EDIT your post after you first wrote it?
Cause I see you just changed the first post... if you are referring to circumstances now, then my vote would go to TM!


I added (only) the note becoz I saw you guys DIDNT BOTHER TO READ THE MAIN TEXT !!!
if you had READ the text before voting, you'd have known I'm NOT inquiring about the general policy of a football federation at any given time or situation.
it was situation-specific .... AS EXPLAINED IN THE TEXT !!!!
;) :rolleyes:

[Adesor Vafaseya]

I added (only) the note becoz I saw you guys DIDNT BOTHER TO READ THE MAIN TEXT !!!
if you had READ the text before voting, you'd have known I'm NOT inquiring about the general policy of a football federation at any given time or situation.
it was situation-specific .... AS EXPLAINED IN THE TEXT !!!!
;) :rolleyes:

I actualy read the main text before voting but guess I misunderstood you or read it with half closed eyes
(fyi - I am not in the office today, I have a fever staying home recovering, at least tyring to....... So I have the perfect excuse for having not read the thread carefully :D ;) )

[Rumi]

good clubs = good TM

easy

[Roozbeh-G2006]

No football federation in the world (apart from the third world crappy ones) would postpone their PROFESSIONAL league for six weeks so that their national team would prepare for a couple of matches. The reason IFF is considering postponing IPL is that a Mr very influential does not want to give up his club duties and chances of success in the league or whatever for the sake of his national team. That is selfish and I wouldn't mind betting he would probably lose both despite my wish for TM and hence Daei to succeed. I am not voting here because I find the question ridiculous. Neither should take precedent over the other. The whole thing is intertwined. As Yavar said good clubs = good TM.

I should add a good IFF = good clubs = good TM
Therfore, crap IFF = disorganised clubs = crap TM

[Doctor DOOM]

to both yavar and roozbeh:

exactly which part of "situation-specific" didnt you two understand ?

or maybe I shd ask : which part of "this is NOT a generic or general inquiry about how a football fed'n .... " is difficult to comprehend???

Is my english so freaking screwed up that ppl cant get the point that THE DAMNED QUESTION IS ABOUT WHAT IFF FACES TODAY, RIGHT NOW, AT THE MOMENT, PRESENTLY, ..... etc.
not what their general policy shd be in the future !!!

shd I be enrolling in english 1-o-1 classes ?

really, ppl. how hard is it for ppl to read simple sentences ( even if it is written in screwed up english ) and THEN vote ?

[Roozbeh-G2006]

to both yavar and roozbeh:

exactly which part of "situation-specific" didnt you two understand ?

or maybe I shd ask : which part of "this is NOT a generic or general inquiry about how a football fed'n .... " is difficult to comprehend???

Is my english so freaking screwed up that ppl cant get the point that THE DAMNED QUESTION IS ABOUT WHAT IFF FACES TODAY, RIGHT NOW, AT THE MOMENT, PRESENTLY, ..... etc.
not what their general policy shd be in the future !!!

shd I be enrolling in english 1-o-1 classes ?

really, ppl. how hard is it for ppl to read simple sentences ( even if it is written in screwed up english ) and THEN vote ?

We understand you! The question you should ask is:

Should Daei give up his club contract in favour of TM?

If Daei gave up his contract with Saipa, then there would be no need to postpone the IPL. Right?

[Doctor DOOM]

We understand you! The question you should ask is:
Should Daei give up his club contract in favour of TM?
If Daei gave up his contract with Saipa, then there would be no need to postpone the IPL. Right?

wrong.
coz it was most of the clubs ( and not just saipa ) who objected to IFF's first proposal , which ironically and surprisingly made sense, to postpone the final 3 weeks to the other side of this round of WCQ's.

and secondly, I believe gol-kuchik has already put that question to a poll and has got pretty good results and conclusions.

[Roozbeh-G2006]

wrong.
coz it was most of the clubs ( and not just saipa ) who objected to IFF's first proposal , which ironically and surprisingly made sense, to postpone the final 3 weeks to the other side of this round of WCQ's.
and secondly, I believe gol-kuchik has already put that question to a poll and has got pretty good results and conclusions.

Damn. .. I missed it ....I would had voted YES :eyebrows:

[Rumi]

What can IFF do for TM now?

NOT MUCH!!!!

DR DOOM honestly are you blind?!

We have to accept that IFF cannot perform miracles...what can they do now apart from organise a few friendlies?!

[BacheLot]

tm baby..! at all times... not just even now..! tm is the only legit way we get football respect around the world..!
IPL is and always has been ...far far far from it and i doubt it will ever become a legitimate, respectable league in the view of the football world (even Jleague, the best that asia has to offer isnt considered anything worthy yet..!!) anytime in the next few decades...!!
i couldnt care less for IPL, or for that matter, ACL ...!! its through success of TM alone that we become a worthy football hub in the world today...!!

[gol_kuchik]

Even though we have been to WC only 3 times, it seems like people take that for granted.
But unless TM is given the highest priority we will not get that great opportunity to
introduce young players to the world and keep our name floating around in positive light.
Being in WC for 2nd time in a row will tell world class coaches we are there to stay and
they will take job opportunity with TM a lot more seriously. We need continuity.

Has to be TM.

==============================================
Having said all of that, again the situation we are in, is rooted in lack of vision at IFF level
without regard on how to schedule and plan and unfortunately we have to make a tough decision
like this. Unless we get someone with clue at the helm of IFF, we will keep having to face these
no win situations.

[Doctor DOOM]

What can IFF do for TM now?

NOT MUCH!!!!

DR DOOM honestly are you blind?!

We have to accept that IFF cannot perform miracles...what can they do now apart from organise a few friendlies?!


hmmm.... maybe I AM blind.
coz these BLIND eyes can see a better chance at preparation for TM if IFF sticks to its previous plan which was to postpone the last 3 games of the season.
to you that sounds IMPOSSIBLE ?

it's been done before.
and given the pros and cons of the NEW proposal which means much more strain on the players, less time for TM and more risks for TM players, I think the postponement is the lesser of the two evils ..... in my BLIND opinion.

==========

and LLOOLLL. some of you sound so scandalized to see proposals like the 3 week postponement of the league.
what ? the league has been running smoothly with no hick-ups, f**k ups, delays and mistakes , like germany's ???
it's been highly organized, standardized and well set that now, a 3 week postponement creates a crack in its PICTURE OF PERFECTION, its EPITOME OF IDEAL LEAGUE, its UNSTAINED & MODEL MANAGEMENT???????

HAH !
big f**king deal !

[Siavash]

This is like asking which one do u love more, ur son or ur daughter. Respectfully not a very smart poll.

[Doctor DOOM]

This is like asking which one do u love more, ur son or ur daughter. Respectfully not a very smart poll.

is that so?
care to explain what you understood from the purpose of the thread ?

hell. care to let us know if you even READ the text of the original post?

[Siavash]

[QUOTE=Doctor DOOM;972579]is that so?
care to explain what you understood from the purpose of the thread ?
hell. care to let us know if you even READ the text of the original post?[/QUOTE

We love both, our clubs and our TM. Without our clubs TM is nothing and so, both are very important. As I mentioned in my post in your thread I think, we should have a compact schedual for clubs so that they finish on time for TM. Apparently, IFF decieded just to do that and finish the games by the end of Khordad.

Here it is. If you cant read Farsi I be happy to translate for you.

ISN - بر اساس تصميم جديد سازمان ليگ برتر فوتبال، ليگ هفتم، اول خرداد به پايان مى رسد. «عزيز محمدى» رئيس سازمان ليگ در اين باره اظهار كرد: با توجه به موافقت على دايى براى آغاز تمرينات تيم ملى از اوايل خرداد، تصميم گرفته شد كه ليگ برتر تا پيش از شروع تمرينات ملى پوشان به پايان برسد. به همين خاطر بازى هاى ليگ هفتم در هفته هاى آينده به صورت فشرده در ارديبهشت برگزار مى شود تا بتوانيم تا اول خرداد مسابقات را به پايان برسانيم. تمام تلاش ما اين است كه اين رقابت ها تا همان زمان اعلام شده يعنى اول خرداد به پايان برسد، ضمن آن كه نظر تمامى مربيان ليگ برتر همين بوده كه هفته هاى پايانى ليگ به صورت فشرده انجام گيرد. به همين خاطر بنا داريم برنامه جديد رقابتهاى ليگ را هر چه سريعتر در چند روز آينده اعلام كنيم. سه شنبه 27 فروردين 1387

[Doctor DOOM]

dont worry, my friend, I CAN read farsi.

what I asked you was a different thing:
did you read the main text of my original post before voting?
coz it would have shown you the question/poll is NOT about any general policy making at a federation.
it is directed at the present situation ONLY.

in fact it is the NEW proposal ( in ur farsi news ) that has prompted me to start the poll. becoz I believe ( and I'm glad to see majority agrees too ) that condensing/packing the last few weeks of the league brings MORE HARM to the players, clubs, and most importantly, the TM.

the club management wants to finish their season ASAP. so THEIR PRIORITY is the clubs. I hardly think TM is such a high priority for them. that's why they're ready to finish the season and take their break, go home or go holidaying quickly, even at the cost of sending a bucnh of tired, fatigued, half-injured players to TM camp, who for days will NOT be of ANY USE to it !
since it takes many days for these players to recuperate and recover from the EXTRA STRAIN the condensed schedule has put them through.
and time's wasted and lost by this.
in the middle we have a whole bunch of players LEAVING TM CAMP for their ACL games ( saipa & sepahan ). not to mention the coaches as well !!!!!!!!!!
so TM's rigorous training and sessions shd wait and get more delays & interruptions.
meaning TM will NOT have enough training or practice to get cohesive and coordinated.
or to work out the kinks and problems.
and before they know, there are a couple of test games, which will be USELESS, coz TM hadnt had enough time to BECOME a TEAM .
and then, BANG! we reach the June 2nd date and have a half-ready TM, some injured players, some tired, some fed up w football , .... etc !!!!

ok ?

[kaz]

dont worry, my friend, I CAN read farsi.

what I asked you was a different thing:
did you read the main text of my original post before voting?
coz it would have shown you the question/poll is NOT about any general policy making at a federation.
it is directed at the present situation ONLY.

in fact it is the NEW proposal ( in ur farsi news ) that has prompted me to start the poll. becoz I believe ( and I'm glad to see majority agrees too ) that condensing/packing the last few weeks of the league brings MORE HARM to the players, clubs, and most importantly, the TM.

the club management wants to finish their season ASAP. so THEIR PRIORITY is the clubs. I hardly think TM is such a high priority for them. that's why they're ready to finish the season and take their break, go home or go holidaying quickly, even at the cost of sending a bucnh of tired, fatigued, half-injured players to TM camp, who for days will NOT be of ANY USE to it !
since it takes many days for these players to recuperate and recover from the EXTRA STRAIN the condensed schedule has put them through.
and time's wasted and lost by this.
in the middle we have a whole bunch of players LEAVING TM CAMP for their ACL games ( saipa & sepahan ). not to mention the coaches as well !!!!!!!!!!
so TM's rigorous training and sessions shd wait and get more delays & interruptions.
meaning TM will NOT have enough training or practice to get cohesive and coordinated.
or to work out the kinks and problems.
and before they know, there are a couple of test games, which will be USELESS, coz TM hadnt had enough time to BECOME a TEAM .
and then, BANG! we reach the June 2nd date and have a half-ready TM, some injured players, some tired, some fed up w football , .... etc !!!!

ok ?

Peyman jan, not sure what you really mean then because you keep asking people did they read what you write and I seem to be coming to the same conclusions as them.

Of course the clubs care more for themselves than TM and, frankly, they should be. It is not upto the clubs to deliver the players all fit and fresh to TM - they're the ones that actually pay to receive the services of said players.

[Roozbeh-G2006]

dont worry, my friend, I CAN read farsi.

becoz I believe ( and I'm glad to see majority agrees too ) that condensing/packing the last few weeks of the league brings MORE HARM to the players, clubs, and most importantly, the TM.


ok ?

Sorry, I don't agree. We all know how lazy our players are. They hardly push themselves to the limit. In fact the condensed last few weeks would more likely make them fitter.:eyebrows:

[Doctor DOOM]

Peyman jan, not sure what you really mean then because you keep asking people did they read what you write and I seem to be coming to the same conclusions as them.
Of course the clubs care more for themselves than TM and, frankly, they should be. It is not upto the clubs to deliver the players all fit and fresh to TM - they're the ones that actually pay to receive the services of said players.

I'm gonna sound like a stuck record here !!:rofl:
in your case, though, it has a slight twist :
did you READ the question , kazem jan. :D

I asked which shd be "IFF"'s ( not clubs' or club management's or owners' or ... ) topmost priority .

[Amin_]

I don't know what's so hard to understand from Peyman's question ?!
I got it the very first time, even before he'd edited his first post...


He isn't asking about what's more important in general...he's asking this, based on the situation we're in RIGHT NOW.

And in this case, in the situation we're facing, with the packed schedule and the crucial WCQ matches coming up, I'd say TM should get priority.

[Doctor DOOM]

this is what the CLUBS are aiming for :
http://www.persianfootball.com/forums/showpost.php?p=972850&postcount=1

- 5th - 8th has only 2 days in between

- 8th - 11/12 has only 2/3 days in between

- 11/12 - 14/16 has only 3-4 days in between

- here, in the middle, saipa and sepahan have an ACL game, meaning only 2-3 days in between for these 2 teams !

- 16 - 22nd (for the rest) has only 5 days in between
and saipa and sepahan will have maximum 2-3 days in between

- 22 - 25th has only 2-3 days in between

- 25th - 28th has only 2 days in between.

- saipa and sepahan will have one more ACL game 2-3 days after 28th !


now, do involve the impact of TRAVEL also, as many of these clubs will TRAVEL to play these games !!!!

now, which one of dear gentlemen will come and defend this scheduling, plz?

[persian boy]

why cant they have both as top priorities, like other countries :rolleyes:

[The-Iron-Ghost]

Vote Club

[Doctor DOOM]

my good god.
I've lost all hope on pfdc members !!

really, ppl.
I shudder to think how you guys would fare in a test of "attention span" !!!

I give up on you !
:o
I refuse to think reading 5 sentences is such a difficult and rough task that many dont bother with it !
I also refuse to think many of you dont have just 30 seconds to spare to actually READ what the thread is all about !!!
so I guess the fault lies with me.


somebody just shut down the thread !
it's too depressing to see THIS is the future of Iran ... with THIS kind of attention span and ability to focus !!!!!
or is it just being "trigger-happy" with voting ? voting without knowing just what the hell we are voting on!
any of you planning to BUY property or insurance or stocks or .... ?
my advise is DONT DO IT !
with this level of focus and attention, you're gonna go under in a month !!!
get a lawyer .... hell get someone who has the patience to READ for more than 5 seconds to do it for you !!!!!

DELETE the thread plz.
:(

[ShahHouman]

omg, come on now people :rofl:

anyways....

i say TM, we're already in a must win situation and we should do anything to assist us in preparation for a win in our next WCQ

i compare the outcome of focusing on clubs compared to TM and i see the rewards greater when we put the focus on our TM in this time frame

[The-Iron-Ghost]

omg, come on now people :rofl:
anyways....
i say TM, we're already in a must win situation and we should do anything to assist us in preparation for a win in our next WCQ
i compare the outcome of focusing on clubs compared to TM and i see the rewards greater when we put the focus on our TM in this time frame

after a while you get sick of being disappointed...and TM is disappointment after another

[bobby a]

Team meli, that is if the IFF realy wants Iran to go to S Africa.

[TM_FAN]

both will suck big time!!!