Simply question 【Who is DM???】

[mehdy]

Branko removed Alavi,Kavianpour,and Kazemi.

Who is real Defensive Midfilder?
Who can stop Deco or ZINHA?

Nekounam? No, he is attacking MF, He can't Chase,Sliding,etc...
I have not seen him return to the defense line.
Teymourian? No, he isn't specalist of defense.
Yahya? Yes,he played before as DM in Asian cup games.
But,Very,Very poor preformance.(slow,bad pass and so on)

Mexico has Pavel PARDO.
Portugal has Francisco COSTINHA.
They are good DM...Chase,Vision,Strategy and other defensive job.

Please tell me your Solution.Who is real Defensive Midfilder?

[BehzadB]

Nekounam has been and will be the heart and sole of that defensive midfield. Brnko will line them up as he did in the WCQ. the only spot in question is the second midfielder. Alavi was dropped, so he is faced with the possibility of Jabari, Navidkia, zandi or karimi.

because Branko is an ultra conservative coach, he might even consider Bakhtiari zadeh to play the second DM spot. the problem then will be where do yo put Zandi.

I think , as I have said before, the second DM will determine the left offensive midfielder, if Zandi is not the second DM (along Nekounam) then he might have to sit on the bench, because the left offensive Midfielder spot will (unfortunately) be given to Hashemian, as it has been in the past.

When talking about the players and the formation, we must consider the fact that we will play with only Daie as the true Striker.

[Hajagha]

We orderd one from Mars, it will come in time.

[Karshenas]

Didn't Mobali used to play as DM in the Asian Cup or early WCQs? I remember he was subbed for Yahya and did a wonderful job distributing the ball around the field and moving the team forward.

Also I don't think Branko uses a DM in his 4-1-3-2 formation. Usually the 1 is Nekounam.

[Martin-Reza]

Nekounam always was and is our defensive midfielder. He is not an attacking midfielder, although he has offensive qualities.

I guess you're trying to promote your favourite player Pasha ... :)

[Doctor DOOM]

nekounam is "placed" as a defensive midfielder, who does occasionally join in defense and defends.

that does not make him a natural DM.

for me, the ideal DM is france's Makelele.
hard working, tough tackling, reads the game well, patient, tough, sacrificial ....
many times I have thought zidane is zidane, becoz he has a makelele doing all the dirty jobs for him, and hands him the ball to do his magic.

take out such a tough and hard working DM, and players like zidane will have a tough time performing half their stuff.


nekounam is some of these, but not all.

------------

zandi?
the only place zandi is good for is in the center of midfield, where he has to be playmaker or attack.
but over there, we have karimi who is far better and useful than him.
he cant defend to save his own skin !!!

[mehdy]

Nekounam always was and is our defensive midfielder. He is not an attacking midfielder, although he has offensive qualities.
I guess you're trying to promote your favourite player Pasha ... :)

Haha:D Martin jan,Yeah,I pray it. But I know Pasha didn't play some weeks from Injury now.

What I want to say is ... Someone should stop Enemy's keyman by dirty foul In a severe match.
I thought that Alavi did this role.But,Branko remove him.

Please recall it. Neither Hashemian nor Zandi in the TM.
Kavian or Alavi were next to Nekounam.

(4-2-3-1)
-------Kavian----Nekounam----
-----Kia-----Karimi------Vahedi---
-------------Daei

And then,Branko bring Hashe and Zandi to the team.

-----Nekounam---Zandi
---Kia-----Karimi----Hashemian
------------Daei

And, they moved to an original position.

(4-1-3-2)
------------Nekounam
----Kia------karimi-------Zandi
--------Daei--------Hashemian

Here is a problem. DM has decreased from two DM to one DM. And, Branko promised them(Heshe,Zandi) the starting eleven.Because he persuaded them.

I think current sysytem is very very weak to the Mexico or Portugal attack.
As you know,Branco has Zandi and Alavi sometimes alternatively like proving it. However, Hashe and Karimi have been injured now.

I think that Branko returns system to an old two DM system,bcz Branko may not use Hashe (from his injured) and Untouchable daei together.(not 4-1-3-2 but 4-2-3-1).

I feel Branko think one DMF system is very Risky system.
Especially, when fight with strong teams,like Mexico.

But, Branko remove some player who can do role of DM.I cannot consent in this thing. I am worried about it.....

OK,This is all of what I want to say.

New question.
If Nekounam is injured or Suspended,Who takes the place of him?

[mehdy]

nekounam is "placed" as a defensive midfielder, who does occasionally join in defense and defends.

that does not make him a natural DM.

for me, the ideal DM is france's Makelele.
hard working, tough tackling, reads the game well, patient, tough, sacrificial ....
many times I have thought zidane is zidane, becoz he has a makelele doing all the dirty jobs for him, and hands him the ball to do his magic.

take out such a tough and hard working DM, and players like zidane will have a tough time performing half their stuff.


nekounam is some of these, but not all.

------------

zandi?
the only place zandi is good for is in the center of midfield, where he has to be playmaker or attack.
but over there, we have karimi who is far better and useful than him.
he cant defend to save his own skin !!!

I agree with you. TM need Makelele or Gattuso or Daviz...

Nekounam is really good player,but Karimi Bagheri is great than him.Bcz he has good skill both Attack and Defense(tough tackling,Sliding).

[Martin-Reza]

Haha:D Martin jan,Yeah,I pray it. But I know Pasha didn't play some weeks from Injury now.
What I want to say is ... Someone should stop Enemy's keyman by dirty foul In a severe match.
I thought that Alavi did this role.But,Branko remove him.
Please recall it. Neither Hashemian nor Zandi in the TM.
Kavian or Alavi were next to Nekounam.
(4-2-3-1)
-------Kavian----Nekounam----
-----Kia-----Karimi------Vahedi---
-------------Daei
And then,Branko bring Hashe and Zandi to the team.
-----Nekounam---Zandi
---Kia-----Karimi----Hashemian
------------Daei
And, they moved to an original position.
(4-1-3-2)
------------Nekounam
----Kia------karimi-------Zandi
--------Daei--------Hashemian
Here is a problem. DM has decreased from two DM to one DM. And, Branko promised them(Heshe,Zandi) the starting eleven.Because he persuaded them.
I think current sysytem is very very weak to the Mexico or Portugal attack.
As you know,Branco has Zandi and Alavi sometimes alternatively like proving it. However, Hashe and Karimi have been injured now.
I think that Branko returns system to an old two DM system,bcz Branko may not use Hashe (from his injured) and Untouchable daei together.(not 4-1-3-2 but 4-2-3-1).
I feel Branko think one DMF system is very Risky system.
Especially, when fight with strong teams,like Mexico.
But, Branko remove some player who can do role of DM.I cannot consent in this thing. I am worried about it.....
OK,This is all of what I want to say.
New question.
If Nekounam is injured or Suspended,Who takes the place of him?

You described the development very accurately. The point is a national team coach needs to adjust his system to the available players, and since we only have one great dm and two great strikers, this system is the best choice, even if it is more risky than the one before.

However, the wingers have a much more central defensive role than they had in the 4-2-3-1, which should make up for the "lost" second dm.

To DD, assuming we can get back to a normal conversation somehow, you are right about Makelele being a classic dm, but there are generally two types of defensive mids. The second one is a "passive destroyer", Hamann would be such an example, or Stuttgart's Soldo. A player who's not so agile, but taller and destroys the opponent's game by good positioning. Nekounam is a dm of that sort, Pashazadeh as well btw.

[Doctor DOOM]

by "destroying" we mean a player who reads the game well ( nekounam is good in it ), is energetic ( another + for nekounam ) , tackles well ( nekounam isnt good in this one. at best, he's an average tackler ) and marks his man - usually the playmaker or "key player" extremely well ( nekounam cant do it and is very weak in marking ).

so THIS type ( destroyer ) of DM, nekounam is not.


I, personally think, when we see coaches bring in defenders ( in TM, yahya or sohrab or lotfi or nosrati, .. ) to DM post, they have this destroying style in mind.

nekounam is too much of a free-flowing, even attacking midfielder to be the destroyer.
he SHD be paired with another player who does the destroying for him.

for me, at this moment, considering the call ups, the best option is SOHRAB.

yahya is nowhere near his usual form.
bagheri isnt called up.
hamed isnt there even.
neither is pasha .

[Hajagha]

Nekonam is one of the finest DM in the world. Mark my words. He is a complete player for such a position. He is clever, good physique, good technique, fast, fast decision maker, not selfish, good tackler, ...

The only difference of him and Makalele is, Makalele is from France and watched but Nekonam had no chance to be tested.

[Mr.Good]

Nekounam was one of the most consistant and influential players of TM for the past 4 years, and he is still 25 years old. Why some people want to complain about every little bit.
He is for sure not Makalele, because he did not recieve the proper education like Makalele. He did not play in top european teams like Makalele.

as Hajagha jan said, he is a complete central player, he has attaking and defensive qualities. Players like him are very rare these days.

So Some people like the Wimpy Doom just need to stop complainning and support thier heros.

[BehzadB]

The only difference of him and Makalele is, Makalele is from France and watched but Nekonam had no chance to be tested.

???

Haji joon, I think there is a bit more differnece between Nekounam and Makalele.

[Hajagha]

???
Haji joon, I think there is a bit more differnece between Nekounam and Makalele.

Yes, there is, and I believe Nekonam is better.

[BehzadB]

Yes, there is, and I believe Nekonam is better.

:shocked: :shocked: :shocked:

Ey baba!

[Fabulous]

Mehdy jan,
Nekounam is our defensive midfielder. If you think he isnt good enough there i might agree he is slightly better playing as a CENTRAL midfielder.

Currently there are only 2 players who can play as DM instead of Nekounam. Nosrati and Golmohammadi can play as a defensive midfielder. I find Nosrati better in that position given his confidence,aggression and desire to attack.. compared to Golmo who is better only in crosses. I also find Nosrati a better at DM than CB or SB.

I think Rezaei can also play DM. But then our defense will be very weak.

[Doctor DOOM]

if ppl cant differentiate between a "complain" and "view", that is their own fault and handicap. they'd better educate themselves a bit more.

and I'd like to know based on what standards nekounam's marking and tackling is measured ?
especially marking, as it was evident in many games where the opposing midfielders make runs in the middle into our 18 , UN-ACCOMPANIED ( un-marked ) !!

japan games, qpr game, ..... are examples I recount at the moment.


just stringing a few words together is easy.
tallying it against reality is the hard part.

[Paradigm]

Branko removed Alavi,Kavianpour,and Kazemi.
Who is real Defensive Midfilder?
Who can stop Deco or ZINHA?
Nekounam? No, he is attacking MF, He can't Chase,Sliding,etc...
I have not seen him return to the defense line.
Teymourian? No, he isn't specalist of defense.
Yahya? Yes,he played before as DM in Asian cup games.
But,Very,Very poor preformance.(slow,bad pass and so on)
Mexico has Pavel PARDO.
Portugal has Francisco COSTINHA.
They are good DM...Chase,Vision,Strategy and other defensive job.
Please tell me your Solution.Who is real Defensive Midfilder?

How about this?

----------------Mirza-----------------
---------Yahya-------Rezaie----------
----Kaabi-------------------Nosrati---
--------------Nekounam--------------
------Kia--------------------Zandi-----
----------Karimi----Hashemian--------
----------------Daie-----------------

(Sub in Mobali for Zandi in the 2nd half)

[Fabulous]

How about this?
----------------Mirza-----------------
---------Yahya-------Rezaie----------
----Kaabi-------------------Nosrati---
--------------Nekounam--------------
------Kia--------------------Zandi-----
----------Karimi----Hashemian--------
----------------Daie-----------------
(Sub in Mobali for Zandi in the 2nd half)
bichareh nekounam..

[Paradigm]

I personally think Alavi should be included. He has always been reliable for TM eventhough he hasn't been doing well with Foolad.

[Hajagha]

:shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
Ey baba!


Well, Makalele has less ability for goal scoring to Nekonam, less ability in air, less physical strength and he is shorter. He drops too much in behind, one thinks he is actually a defender, he is not a accurate shooter.

The only thing, he is better is, he is faster than Nekonam. Poor Iranian players, lack of communication ability (Language) and media coverage didn't give them the chances they deserve.

Believe me on this.

[Paradigm]

How about this:

------------Mirza--------------

----Kaabi---Yahya----Rezaie----

-----Ballack------Nekounam-----

---Kia------Karimi-----Zandi-----

--------Daie------Hashemian----


We only need Ballack to change his citizenship. :D

The question though is, with Ballack in the team who will be the captain? Him or Daie? :o :)

[Hajagha]

The question though is, with Ballack in the team who will be the captain? Him or Daie? :o :)

Ballak is no best goal scorer of the world. :D

[Paradigm]

Ballak is no best goal scorer of the world. :D

That's right, Germany never played with Guam, Laos and the Maldives! :D

Anyways, Ballack is still 29... he has 8 years to catch up with Daie's 107 international goals record! :o

[zereshk-ali]

I share your anxiety Mehdi jan. Nekounam is not a naturally defensive midfielder - he is a central midfielder, full stop - neither attacking nor defensive.

This is what makes him so important to our team - he is the complete midfielder, but to compliment him I would rather have a defensive midfielder or another all rounder - particularly against Portugal and Mexico. The only option I can see is Teymourian.

Personally, I would have loved an in-form Kavianpour alongside him but it was not to be and his form didn`t deserve it.

[zereshk-ali]

Nekonam is one of the finest DM in the world. Mark my words. He is a complete player for such a position. He is clever, good physique, good technique, fast, fast decision maker, not selfish, good tackler, ...
The only difference of him and Makalele is, Makalele is from France and watched but Nekonam had no chance to be tested.

Surely Nekounam and Makelele are very different players?

I`m not arguing that Javad isn`t a world class player, but his style and attributes are very different to Makelele.

[Hajagha]

Surely Nekounam and Makelele are very different players?
I`m not arguing that Javad isn`t a world class player, but his style and attributes are very different to Makelele.

I love you man. Are you married? :D

it seems you understand football, good job. :)

As you described in your pervious post, Javad is a more complete player than Makalele. Period.

One comment, Bakhtiari can play alongside Javad against Portugal.

[khabalood]

Surely Nekounam and Makelele are very different players?
I`m not arguing that Javad isn`t a world class player, but his style and attributes are very different to Makelele.

Lets not get carried away here. Nekounam is no way a world class player, especially in the form he exhibited in the last few months. In fact he will need to step his game up into another level for the world cup to be competitive, as will most of tm.

[zereshk-ali]

I love you man. Are you married? :D
it seems you understand football, good job. :)
As you described in your pervious post, Javad is a more complete player than Makalele. Period.
One comment, Bakhtiari can play alongside Javad against Portugal.

:D

are you trying to queer me up hajagha jan?! :eyebrows:

I love you too man, but not in that way, buddy... :fear:

[zereshk-ali]

Lets not get carried away here. Nekounam is no way a world class player, especially in the form he exhibited in the last few months. In fact he will need to step his game up into another level for the world cup to be competitive, as will most of tm.

true, his form has not been great...but on his day he is our most influential and complete player and has controlled and won midfield battles against Japan and Korea whilst playing alongside players of the calibre of Alaavi(!)...I can`t see how you can argue that is not world class.

I would argue that if Mahdavikia, Daei (in his prime) and Karimi can be termed as world class players, then so is Javad.

[khabalood]

Nekounam is not our most complete player, not even close to it. One could argue that Mahdavikia, Karimi (on his best days) and even Daei for about a year maybe are world class but Nekounam is definately not. To be labelled world clas in my opinion means that the player is among the 5 best in his position in the world. Now to be honest Nekounam couldn't even make it to a good european club, let a lone show a consistent performance that would warrant a top 5 in the world rating.

[zereshk-ali]

Nekounam is not our most complete player, not even close to it. One could argue that Mahdavikia, Karimi (on his best days) and even Daei for about a year maybe are world class but Nekounam is definately not. To be labelled world clas in my opinion means that the player is among the 5 best in his position in the world. Now to be honest Nekounam couldn't even make it to a good european club, let a lone show a consistent performance that would warrant a top 5 in the world rating.

It is of course a matter of opinion who is our most complete player, but I would certainly argue that that your definition is a ridiculously harsh description of a world class player....by your reckoning, only 5 players in each position are world class; so assuming there are two central midfield positions to pick from, which from these selection of central midfielders would you deem are not world class?

Claude Makelele, Patrick Vieira, Michael Ballack, Steven Gerrard, Andrea Pirlo, Emerson, Gilberto, Kaka, Frank Lampard, Tomas Rosicky, Pavel Nedved, Mark Van Bommel, Xavi, Marcos Senna, Clarence Seedorf, Esteban Cambiasso, Javier Mascherano, David Pizarro, Petit, Tiago, Deco, Rene Gattusso, Zidane, Xabi Alonso, Ruben Baraja, David Albelda, Pablo Aimar, Juan Roman Riquelme, Cesc Fabregas, Thomas Gravesen, Michael Essien, Rafael Marquez, Ali Karimi, Javad Nekounam....etc....

And if you believe Karimi on his best days is in that selection, who is in alongside him?

Also, to say that Ali Daei in his prime for a year was in the top 5 strikers in the world is slightly delusional! A player who in his prime was not even regularly selected in the top 2 strikers at Bayern Munich, failed to score in the world cup and was often replaced by Carsten Jancker would not be in my selection of the top 5 world strikers!

[khabalood]

It is of course a matter of opinion who is our most complete player, but I would certainly argue that that your definition is a ridiculously harsh description of a world class player....by your reckoning, only 5 players in each position are world class; so assuming there are two central midfield positions to pick from, which from these selection of central midfielders would you deem are not world class?
Claude Makelele, Patrick Vieira, Michael Ballack, Steven Gerrard, Andrea Pirlo, Emerson, Gilberto, Kaka, Frank Lampard, Tomas Rosicky, Pavel Nedved, Mark Van Bommel, Xavi, Marcos Senna, Clarence Seedorf, Esteban Cambiasso, Javier Mascherano, David Pizarro, Petit, Tiago, Deco, Rene Gattusso, Zidane, Xabi Alonso, Ruben Baraja, David Albelda, Pablo Aimar, Juan Roman Riquelme, Cesc Fabregas, Thomas Gravesen, Michael Essien, Rafael Marquez, Ali Karimi, Javad Nekounam....etc....
And if you believe Karimi on his best days is in that selection, who is in alongside him?
Also, to say that Ali Daei in his prime for a year was in the top 5 strikers in the world is slightly delusional! A player who in his prime was not even regularly selected in the top 2 strikers at Bayern Munich, failed to score in the world cup and was often replaced by Carsten Jancker would not be in my selection of the top 5 world strikers!

The problem with the list you submitted is that they are not all defensive midifelders. Sure some may play the position from time to time, but it does not mean they are the best in that position. That said from the list Claude Makelele, Patrick Vieira, Emerson, Andrea Pirlo are the best defensive midfielders in my opinion currently. Anyone who can match them should also be regarded as world class.

Also I think you are judging Daei a little too roughly, especially with regard to Carsten Janker who is mocked the world over. There were underlying circumstances during Daeis spell at Munich which kept him out of the starting lineup. In no way should it take awawy from his talent, which he showed a year later by scoring crucial goals in the champions league against Milan and Chelsea which took Herta to the next round. I may however be a bit biased on the subject.

[zereshk-ali]

The problem with the list you submitted is that they are not all defensive midifelders. Sure some may play the position from time to time, but it does not mean they are the best in that position. That said from the list Claude Makelele, Patrick Vieira, Emerson, Andrea Pirlo are the best defensive midfielders in my opinion currently. Anyone who can match them should also be regarded as world class.
Also I think you are judging Daei a little too roughly, especially with regard to Carsten Janker who is mocked the world over. There were underlying circumstances during Daeis spell at Munich which kept him out of the starting lineup. In no way should it take awawy from his talent, which he showed a year later by scoring crucial goals in the champions league against Milan and Chelsea which took Herta to the next round. I may however be a bit biased on the subject.

true, they are not all defensive midfielders, but I already mentioned this - even picking 10 players from that list leaves out an awful lot of talented players...I would say world class ones.

But that`s just semantics....Either way, I didn`t see the match yesterday but judging from the reaction to his performance Javad let me down.

I hope we see the old Nekounam before the world cup, because when he plays we play, and I think the fact that we have not been so convincing recently is partly down to his decline.

I may be judging Daei a little harshly, but even joining you in being a slightly biased nationalist I would never at any point have put him in my list of the world`s top 5 strikers.